Search options (Page 2 of 7)

I will definitely do this. Even the picture from Freddy's shop page helped me a lot.

When about trying to shoot my tong-ah, I thought a while about it, and come up with some further questions and comments.

The first issue - what arrowheads were used for pyeonjeons in a historical context, i.e. for military use ?
The rail practically limits the size and diameter, a proper war-type broadhead would IMHO be impractical or very dangerous to shoot.
I can imagine pyeonjeons for military use had bodkin-like tips, or similar to contemporary field tips.

Second, the "Pyeonjeon" Wikipedia entry contains some gross errors.
It states for instance:
"Their higher speed and aerodynamic efficiency means they penetrate armour better at range."
"Aerodynamic efficiency" basically refers to drag, which is not much different from a longer, normal-sized arrow.
The drag coefficient is determined by cross sectional area and fletching size, not by length along the flight axis.
"...they penetrate armour better at range" The opposite is true. Penetration is related to kinetic momentum (mass x velocity), see below.

"Further more, the short bolts had longer range and flatter trajectory with a faster velocity and penetrating power."
The first part is true, initial velocity is higher, resulting in a flatter trajectory.
However, I have an issue with both grammar and proposition of the last part.
Filling the implicit ellipsis, it would say "... with a faster penetrating power.", which is an abstruse wording.
But even worse, it is untrue, physically incorrect.
Assuming normal sized and short arrows (pyeonjeon) are shot from the same bow, the initial kinetic energy depends on the bow only.
And assuming ideal or very high efficiency of the bow, the same kinetic energy is transferred initially into both arrow.
Therefore, the shorter and lighter pyeonjeon will start out significantly faster.
But since drag depends on cross sectional area, drag coefficient and velocity (actually velocity squared), the velocity of a pyeonjeon will drop much faster then those of a normal arrow.
Penetration OTOH is proportional to kinetic momentum (mass x velocity), not kinetic energy - see Ed Ashby's work on arrow lethality.
Combined with the significant drop in velocity, a pyeonjeon's penetration beyond the range of a normal arrow (say, 200m) is much less.
I suppose it might not even have penetrated thick armour (of elite warriors like samurai) at all.
In tactical terms, it extends the effective range of archers significantly, and was useful against unarmoured or lightly armoured enemies.
Historical texts about Ottoman archery describe this explicitly. They used the majra (tong-ah) to harass enemy troops beyond the range of enemy archers, to disrupt their formation and attacks.
The Manchus and Englishmen had good reasons to use 1500 .. 2000gn arrows against heavily armoured opponents.

The post got a bit long, hope you don't mind ...

Right. I have seen it, but didn't notice the price ...
I would have expected a platinum-plated gold head for that money  .

Which kept me from stocking up on such arrow heads. I would rather use a field tip for a tenth of the price, and use a ping pong ball or Kinder egg.
But OTOH, compare it to typical bow hunter equipment. Mechanical arrowheads (unfolding on impact) for 10..20$ each, on carbon shafts for typically 10..15$ each, and shot from a 1k$ (compound) bow.

I have this opportunity at my parent's home, which I am rarely able to visit. I shoot sometimes in the garage, merely as technique training.
My club does not forbid tong-ah shooting - they don't know about it, actually.
I tried once with appropriately shortened wood arrows. Because I had been struggling with technique anyway, the results were quite mixed.
Would be interesting to know if one could shoot 3D tournaments with it. Some instinctive classes (like longbow or primitive bow) are tightly regulated - wood arrows only, no facewalking, no stringwalking, only mediterranean release. If there is a horsebow class at all, the only constraint are wood arrows. Tong-ah and pyunjun are virtually unknown in the European 3D scene.

Still confused by the price - 50$ is what I expect for a well-made historical replica, not for a "everyday" product.

.
That sounds rather like the latter...

Yes, would be nice if someone knowledgable could shed some light on it.

Except for the Ottomans, I know no other culture that engaged in flight shooting. And considering that fact that archery was and is about hitting a target, the archery-related recreational pursuits reflected that. Most competitions were rather precision related. And arrow weights below 200 grain don't imply any military significance.
But the fact remains, the traditional Korean bow is one of the very few historical designs that allow for such an endeavor with similar results, and without breaking at this tiny gpp ratios.

Unfortunately I depend on translations for historical research - the fundamentally different language/script provide a high entrance barrier ...

I would say, that depends on you.
I build myself a leather protection for the thumb from a cheap leather working clove.
It looks very similar to the thumb-part of said Ggakji bohodae, and I do quite well with it.

Having tried several solid thumb rings, I never came to like them.
I just need the specific pressure feeling, and feedback.

I have some experience with KTBs, albeit not sure what is meant with I and II. They use to be carbon/wood/carbon laminate bows, and as such very litte susceptible to climate (moisture, temperature) under normal circumstances. I have another wood/glass laminated horsebow that consistently and reversibly fails at high temperatures (>25°C).
Freddie's KTBs are quite robust and IMHO a very good value for money. The rest comes down to personal preferences, experiences, and aspirations.

The link i gave in my last post supposedly works, at least it does for me.
Still a bit confused how image uploads work.

I think I heard of that, too.
But still having a hard time to understand the pricing. There seem to be many people with unlimited financial ressources ...

BTW, a club fellow of mine recently showed me photos of replicas of Japanese ceremonial arrows he made. I had organized the bamboo shafts for him. The arrowheads where very elaborate, and in the same pricing ball park.
Perhaps I can get some photos from him...

The price suggests these arrows actually have "gold tips" ...

I like compound shooting because I need to slow down and concentrate - even more then with a KTB. Getting and keeping the pin on the target and release clean is not as easy as it looks. Some things are the same - bow grip, backtension, and drawlength / draw hand position. So I think shooting compound supports my thumb shooting as well.
My compound is (supposedly) designed to hold up at least 20 years, and the company is known to still produce spare parts for it's old bows. We will see.

Interestingly, draw weight is an important factor for the success of compounds. Because of it's almost rectangular draw weight vs. draw length curve, a compound stores almost twice the energy compared to  a recurve. And with letoff, you hold almost nothing. That allows a lot of guys to bowhunt which would not be able to control a recurve or longbow of the required energy.
But still, you see many reviewer struggling to pull back. Perhaps an ego thing, I have mine turned down to slightly about 52#, which I can draw comfortably in every position.