apply the correct twist to the bow handle (Page 1 of 2)

Twisting may mean letting the bow turn counter clockwise right after the release of the arrow, assuming you hold the bow with your left hand.

Thank you for your quick answer, Warbow and Bluelake ;

That's good news !

I've applied some kind of "twist" to my bow, since the beginning, trying to follow what I read about kyudo (the "tsunomi" technique ?). I stopped "twisting" the KTB, a month ago, wondering whether this was appropriate, or truly traditional, or even only efficient. (I find that, when using a thumb ring, a very primitive "longbow/selfbow" is much easier to twist and rotate than a KTB).

But how Korean Traditional Archers describe the way they apply the correct twist to a KTB ?

I'm sure this would deserve a few pages of explanations (that will probably remain very "cryptic" without direct coaching, but should still be helpful [[example for kyudo, page 18 of  http://www.shuitsukankyudojo.de/texte/manual.pdf]]

Thanks,

by collecting every hint, I'll eventually be able to "re-invent" the correct grip :-)
maybe even before I find a "technical manual" !?

Hope Thomas Duvernay will add something like that to a new version of his book ; a "technical manual" would help diffusing KTB use outside Korea. For instance, such a manual could expose the various Korean traditional techniques in use today, then it could be more specific about the most popular Korean traditional technique.

It will probably be a year or two before I come out with a revised edition of my book, although I hope to make it a color version 

I have never had a problem being able to roll the bow to the left after the release...........
however this is a detriment, shooting in the western style where the arrow lies on the left
side of the bow (shooting right-handed). Rolling the bow to the left pulls the arrow off target.
So, if using a thumb ring, with my natural tendency to roll the bow to the left, I should be in good shape. 

the twist of the bow handle comes from the correct handle grip. First,  your left hand keeps the bow grip with the thumb oriented upwards, so that the thumb aligns with the upper limb, then you align your index finger with the left side of the upper limb, then you grip the handle with your pinky like holding an egg. This is how you must keep the bow handle, the twist being a result of the position of your hand on the grip.  It is easier to achieve the same twist every time by keeping the handle the same way than trying to guess which is the right amount of twist when randomly positioning your hand on the grip everytime you shoot an arrow. You may want to watch this in this video, at 0.16

Thanks,

I rediscover this vid that I stored in some playlist months ago. The description is similar to the one found in Thomas Duvernay's book, and similar to the one given on ktarchery.com.  And I did just like that for months, keeping  (during the whole draw) the sensation of twist : when you feel that the handle is trying to spin, but is prevented to do so by the pressure on the palm and on the last three fingers.

Not sure that an egg would resist to this type of pressure !? :-)

No pressure / no twist is what I'm trying theses days : doesn't seem very interesting for now.

Or the problem is that I keep the thumb low (to avoid touching the arrow) while keeping the other fingers at the right height on the handle.

Very cool !

Can you do that with a KTB, very long draw, bent draw wrist, low draw elbow ?
(maybe it's only possible when aiming upwards (target at 145m))

I noted the twist mentioned above and thought it related to something slightly different...

I have only started learning KTB and have been practicing drawing the bow only (as I am learning at a Jung in Korea).  Yesterday I was moved on to shooting gently shooting an arrow attached to a line - but the hand grip I had been taught was suddenly altered!!! 

(I had written this post earlier but had a class to teach and lost the post - but I decided to take a few photos to try and explain what I meant!)

The initial hand grip I had been taught was pretty straight forward! Place the lower 3 fingers of the bow hand onto the grip (at an angle so that the base of each finger lines up along the grip) and then the thumb and fore-finger are then placed.  I was also instructed to straighten my whole arm all the way to the shoulder and have my elbow rotated inwards for strength (makes it difficult/impossible for the elbow to bend/give way).

I will get to the 'twist' part in a moment - promise!

Here are pics of the initial grip, please excuse the small bottle used as a grip - my bow is in the car: 

BUT.... when the arrow was added yesterday the instruction of the grip changed slightly - but ultimately more difficultly.

There was now a slight twist added with increased the canter of the bow, my hand grip was instructed to change slightly too to ensure no rub from the string as it was released, and the twist actually moves the bow as if it is directed 30-45 degrees off to my left.  This made it much more difficult to draw the bow and I really felt confused as to what was going on...

You can see the difference in the pics below - the grip now has the hand leaning backwards but still requires the forearm and elbow to be rotated inwards (to the right for me) and yet the hand is rotating out (left). 

I guessed this was the 'twist'.... but then after all this I could still be wrong!

(Oh, and I don't wear my watch during practice!)

Thomas,

I am interested to know what you think about the technique that is described in the video above?

Thank you,

Joseph

In chinese archery the twisting releases are many. I saw koreans and japanese archers do sometimes almost the same releases as chinese. Generally speaking i don't recommend to try it without a proper training guided by a master.

M.

I will reawaken this thread with some provocation..
At about 4.43, the twisting motion in both bow (twisting starting at full draw and triggers the release) and string hand (turning the hand counter-clock wise/towards the arrow until the string no longer stays on the thumb) is close to kyudo practice, like at Heki Ryu Insai Ha, a variant of shamen style.