Topic: Bow string
May I share these photo. I took them from Hwang Hak Jeong in Seoul.
Detail:
1 2012-02-02 08:36:08 (edited by sissara 2013-08-21 09:42:52)
+2
Re: Bow string
Beautiful photos. I wonder if someone can enlighten me of the following.
I watched a Korean movie
Re: Bow string
In the movie the actor after he draws the bow to the full extent he twists his bow string with the fingers to 45 degree in order to tighten further the string before he release the arrows. Wonder if such move exists in traditional Korean archery or just dramatic acts in the movie. The name of the movie is "Ultimate Weapon - Bow" and it is a very interesting movie with lots of bow shooting scene.
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Re: Bow string
imperial wrote:
In the movie the actor after he draws the bow to the full extent he twists his bow string with the fingers to 45 degree in order to tighten further the string before he release the arrows. Wonder if such move exists in traditional Korean archery or just dramatic acts in the movie. The name of the movie is "Ultimate Weapon - Bow" and it is a very interesting movie with lots of bow shooting scene.
Some people do that, so it's not just dramatic effect (although it's a bit of that, too).
7 2012-08-16 03:18:00 (edited by tonygt19 2012-08-16 03:19:36)
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Re: Bow string
imperial wrote:
In the movie the actor after he draws the bow to the full extent he twists his bow string with the fingers to 45 degree in order to tighten further the string before he release the arrows. Wonder if such move exists in traditional Korean archery or just dramatic acts in the movie. The name of the movie is "Ultimate Weapon - Bow" and it is a very interesting movie with lots of bow shooting scene.
Imperial, that’s a good observation. I watched the movie several times because I was fascinated with the historical accuracy of the clothing, cultural enactments and archery equipment and shooting styles depicted in the movie. People nowadays do twist their knuckles into the string when using a thumbring usually to tighten a loosely nocked arrow to the string and press it against the bow for stability before release. But the movie used this movement to preface a somewhat mystical achievement of this main character , the disenfranchised son of a fallen nobleman. This character’s only salvation was his dedication to his archery using his father’s Korean horn bow. The movie shows he has become an unusually talented archer as a young man when he fells a running deer with a tong-ah and aegisal . The mystical achievement is that he has somehow managed to learn to cast arrows on a curved path (right to left, not in a gravitational arch). While this is possible with a ball, a vertically spinning baseball can in fact curve to one side. It is impossible with an arrow which spins on the axis of its flight. Of course the wind can take an arrow sideways in flight but in this movie it is plain the hero controls his arrows this way. And it is plain his twisting gf the string has something to do with it. In the denouement scene he sends an arrow around his sister’s neck into the neck of the villain holding her as a human shield. It took me several viewings to pick this out as it is never plainly addressed except by the Chinese commander in his final words.
Re: Bow string
I had indeed tried excessive string twisting as shown in movie. The arrows just fly with excessive fish tailing at the beginning.
9 2012-08-16 15:13:18 (edited by tonygt19 2012-08-16 15:47:23)
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Re: Bow string
Sissara,
Right, the bowstring twisting thing in the “War of the Arrows” movie was just a dramatic ploy to set up the main character’s impossible shots, i.e. making the arrows curve around objects. In reality if you twist the bowstring excessively in a thumb ring grip you will simply cause greater sideways oscillation of the bowstring on release. It is the sideways oscillation of the bowstring while it is pushing the arrow forward that causes the archer’s paradox as is clearly shown in this video < www.youtube.com/watch?v=96KGWC0PB6s >. So if you artificially increase the paradox you can get fishtailing once the arrow leaves the bow.
cheers,
Tony
10 2015-02-20 07:37:23 (edited by hahaha 2015-02-20 07:39:18)
Re: Bow string
I watched the movie several times because I was fascinated with the historical accuracy of the clothing, cultural enactments and archery equipment and shooting styles depicted in the movie. People nowadays do twist their knuckles into the string when using a thumbring usually to tighten a loosely nocked arrow to the string and press it against the bow for stability before release. But the movie used this movement to preface a somewhat mystical achievement of this main character , the disenfranchised son of a fallen nobleman. This character’s only salvation was his dedication to his archery using his father’s Korean horn bow.???
http://www.braindumps.com/training/ccnp-route.htm
Re: Bow string
12 2016-09-24 05:17:43 (edited by Pedro C 2016-09-24 09:39:08)
Re: Bow string
Actually after trying to do it like in the video, the picture in the original post begins to make sense. But it's still not enough information.
By not reverse twisting my bunch of thread, I ended up with this.
For now...
Anyway, I wonder if the loop portion inserted onto the main string is reverse twisted or a bunch of loose strands that are simply twisted? I think I should try to reverse twist them to avoid this sort of annoyance of the loop coming apart.
edit: from watchings videos linked by Mule, no, the loops are not reverse twisted, just twisted.. counterclockwise?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aEWoRC3F0E
The last part where that one loop is moved to the side, then pulled, is the one that confuses me..
Re: Bow string
If your string is waxed, they'll stick together and not come apart. I've done it by just simple twisting (though I don't see why reverse twisting would be a problem)
+1
Re: Bow string
I did it with reverse twisting, even if I screwed up that one part they seem to hold. I should try to explain the knot myself and maybe someone would confirm if I'm doing it all right? Pictures tomorrow!
15 2016-09-26 00:43:01 (edited by Pedro C 2016-09-26 01:10:24)
Re: Bow string
may be safe to burn that end off now.. it did slip a bit, even though i tried to pull the end with pliers
at first, the knot was closer to the top of the string bridge.
16 2016-09-27 09:47:28 (edited by Pedro C 2016-09-27 09:47:50)
Re: Bow string
the loose ends of the continuous string are giving me a lot of trouble... thinking i'll join with a triple fisherman's knot. i have to rub the string etc to make sure all the strands are sharing strength
a square knot like in one of the videos didn't work well for me..
beeswax works pretty well for the loops since it's tacky, it seems..
Re: Bow string
What bow string type would be best to use? This would be my first time attempting to make a string.
18 2016-10-01 03:30:36 (edited by Pedro C 2016-10-02 09:16:30)
Re: Bow string
wayfarer wrote:
What bow string type would be best to use? This would be my first time attempting to make a string.
How I made a Korean traditional style string that's been satisfactory for 15-20 shots today... (a lot of steps)
-note length of string to knots or start of loops (that is, excluding loops) that you need.
-tying two duplex nails or something similar to table legs with a slipped surgeon's knot of sorts (good for tightening). they should be around 3-4 cm more distance than the length recorded in the previous step. Of course you could just have two nails and hammer them to a board..
-wrapping 12 strands of D10 (or D97) around them
-removing one nail, put one end of the string on the table and tie loose ends (**tag ends of the continuous string**) with zeppelin bend, allowing for some slack (square knot broke on my first string..) (I did not allow the zeppelin knot to be right at one of the loop knots, but close to it. I think I'll serve over it.)
-pull from one side with an awl or something with a tied-to-table nail on the other hard until all the strands get the same tension..
-wax the string. rub it a lot, I used synthetic bowstring wax
- twist with the awl while pulling. note the direction. clockwise may be best if you shoot thumb draw with your draw hand as right hand, correct me if i'm wrong (I did clockwise)
-get 14 strands of D10 wrapped continuously, about 24" long. no need to tie loose ends
-put an awl on the end of the 'loop' of that 24" "string" that doesn't have the loose ends (both loose ends should be on the other side), and twist in the SAME direction as the main string (I did clockwise)
-follow this to tie it. I'll have to expand on this knot later from my experimenting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hYESA-GDhI
If anyone wants to translate anything important that he says, I would really appreciate it!- make the tied on loop so that, once you've tightened it by hand, the knot would rest just short of the edge of the string bridge closest to the tip.
- if the loops want to twist when you string or draw the bow, twist the string more. Again, the twist of the loops and string should be in the same direction and they should look about as twisted so there is no tendency for the loops to twist when the bow is drawn.
- Hopefully your brace height is good. The loops will slip a bit after some shooting, ideally the knots should be in the part of the bridges closest to the tip I think. Now you can serve starting from the center of the string towards the loop going on the top limb. Enjoy
I think if I had a jig for it, it'd be faster to make a modern style continuous string.
*from what I've just seen these few days*, the advantage of this string is the loops are softer, you can twist it more and there's no tendency for the loops to twist, and since the string is so twisted it may absorb more shock. But you can probably twist a modern style continuous string quite a bit before the loops want to twist significantly when the bow's drawn..
The disadvantage is how annoying it was for me to deal with the loose ends of the main string, the knot is kind of tricky and the knot slips at the beginning. And it probably takes longer to make. I've never made a true modern continuous string though. But it looks easier.To prevent the loops from twisting, I have to put A LOT of twist in the main string, something like 5 per inch I don't know. But it looks good... and appears to shoot well...
Hope this is interesting and not tl;dr
Re: Bow string
I suspect the traditional knotted string needs more twisting, so it'd have more stretch?..
Re: Bow string
Thanks for the post I think someday I will give it a try and sorry I wouldn't know but from reading the quoted section it seems a lot of twisting is required. It will probably be just trial and error. Did you make one and try it out?
21 2016-10-01 09:14:56 (edited by Pedro C 2016-10-01 09:15:32)
Re: Bow string
I wrote that (just my experiences with trial and error) after following the knot with the video, making three w/ a little experimenting, I hope it's close enough to how they do it..
It seems to work pretty well. Maybe more testing is needed..
Re: Bow string
Well thanks for the write up.
This video seems that it could also be helpful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwq8Rs2ukig
I am sure it will be trial and error but if its working now that is good atleast.
+1
Re: Bow string
Pedro C wrote:
the loose ends of the continuous string are giving me a lot of trouble... thinking i'll join with a triple fisherman's knot. i have to rub the string etc to make sure all the strands are sharing strength
a square knot like in one of the videos didn't work well for me..
beeswax works pretty well for the loops since it's tacky, it seems..
Did you figure out a good knot for the continuous? About to make a new string
24 2016-11-01 18:18:45 (edited by Pedro C 2016-11-01 18:25:24)
Re: Bow string
I've just been using a zeppelin bend to join the two loose ends, though it always ends up with the tied on "strand" very loose so I have to pull hard from one end (pulling one nail while the other is secured, continuous part wrapped around two nails) so they all get the same tension..
I tried a square knot (or a granny knot?) but it just falls apart. Though I read that the square knot also sucks for this purpose
Just made a 10 strand D97 string with 14 strand loops that I'll try today. even though my form and accuracy and consistency completely suck and I need to train with a lighter bow and forget all bad habits. and I need matched arrows..
From the videos, it kind of seems like they just don't tie the loose tag ends together, but.. wouldn't it slip?..
maybe gluing would work.
Maybe for making a served continuous string, the loose ends could be left untied inside the serving? what
i dunno man
Re: Bow string
Last time, I used a square knot, cut the loose ends short and burned/melted them with a lighter. This thickened the ends enough that they didn't slip under the knot anymore.. Used this string for a year with a 60 pound bow and it's held up so I guess it's good enough but I do wish there was a better way to do it.
In the video I saw, they used a square knot, and it seemed not to slip. Not sure how.
+1