1 (edited by misterwonky 2013-10-20 00:18:26)

Topic: Making thumbrings without pain...

So I've made 6 billiard ball thumbrings now, and a few of them are pretty good, some look amazing, but most are terrible.  The pain is on the inside of my thumb right at the joint (where the ring is pressing).  At first I thought the weight wasn't being distributed correctly, and made it more contoured which helped, but still painful.  Then I tried to make a wider band so it didn't have as much "play", but looking at other thumbrings that are production or antiques, it seems they didn't use extremely wide bands.

This leaves me to question what the problem is, and thought that you guys may have ran into this before.  Here's the latest ring, and it seems to fit perfectly until I pull the string.....which causes significant pain.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1Cr9lbJxb3g/UmMbB3xaisI/AAAAAAAAANQ/oz4ejLOSxH4/w440-h330-p/IMAG0186.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-wJPif_nmdR8/UmMbDx8gCpI/AAAAAAAAANY/IcuDlqZ7SbA/w440-h330-p/IMAG0187.jpg

This ring is slightly too large, and can slip off of my thumb with enough work, but is only a millimeter too large I think.  Thanks in advance for any info!

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Re: Making thumbrings without pain...

Try something to shim the back part of the ring (thin leather or cloth tape, for example).  That's how it's usually done here in Korea.

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3 (edited by tonygt19 2013-10-20 15:19:30)

Re: Making thumbrings without pain...

misterwonky wrote:

So I've made 6 billiard ball thumbrings now, and a few of them are pretty good, some look amazing, but most are terrible.  The pain is on the inside of my thumb right at the joint (where the ring is pressing).  At first I thought the weight wasn't being distributed correctly, and made it more contoured which helped, but still painful.  Then I tried to make a wider band so it didn't have as much "play", but looking at other thumbrings that are production or antiques, it seems they didn't use extremely wide bands.

This leaves me to question what the problem is, and thought that you guys may have ran into this before.  Here's the latest ring, and it seems to fit perfectly until I pull the string.....which causes significant pain.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1Cr9lbJxb3g/UmMbB3xaisI/AAAAAAAAANQ/oz4ejLOSxH4/w440-h330-p/IMAG0186.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-wJPif_nmdR8/UmMbDx8gCpI/AAAAAAAAANY/IcuDlqZ7SbA/w440-h330-p/IMAG0187.jpg

This ring is slightly too large, and can slip off of my thumb with enough work, but is only a millimeter too large I think.  Thanks in advance for any info!

From the photo you embedded it looks like you made a beautiful thumb ring but you designed it to function incorrectly. If you are positioning the string between the black ridge and the lighter tab on the ring you will be putting all the draw pressure on the last thumb bone. So the pressure is mostly applied to your thumb print area. That would be extremely painful even with a moderately heavy draw weight. The thumb ring is designed with an oval opening so that it can be slipped over the oval shaped end of the first thumb bone (the one attached to your hand). But when twisted 90 degrees into its functional position it cannot be pulled off without crushing the flange of the bone. That would take well over a hundred pounds of pull even for dainty bones. Nearly all the pressure from drawing the bowstring should be on the 2 red areas which are shown in the photoshopped x-ray I attached. If you pinch those two areas with your other hand and pull as hard as you can you will feel no discomfort. That's more or less the way a correctly fitted thumb ring should feel. This works best when the string is pulled by the upper lip of the ring and slightly above the joint. I pull a 70lb at 28" Hwarang well past 85lbs with no thumb discomfort. Bending your thumb and holding it with your index finger is really only to lock to draw. If your thumb ring can come off at all in its shooting position none of this works. Hope this helps.

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Re: Making thumbrings without pain...

tonygt19 wrote:

From the photo you embedded it looks like you made a beautiful thumb ring but you designed it to function incorrectly. If you are positioning the string between the black ridge and the lighter tab on the ring you will be putting all the draw pressure on the last thumb bone. So the pressure is mostly applied to your thumb print area. That would be extremely painful even with a moderately heavy draw weight. The thumb ring is designed with an oval opening so that it can be slipped over the oval shaped end of the first thumb bone (the one attached to your hand). But when twisted 90 degrees into its functional position it cannot be pulled off without crushing the flange of the bone. That would take well over a hundred pounds of pull even for dainty bones. Nearly all the pressure from drawing the bowstring should be on the 2 red areas which are shown in the photoshopped x-ray I attached. If you pinch those two areas with your other hand and pull as hard as you can you will feel no discomfort. That's more or less the way a correctly fitted thumb ring should feel. This works best when the string is pulled by the upper lip of the ring and slightly above the joint. I pull a 70lb at 28" Hwarang well past 85lbs with no thumb discomfort. Bending your thumb and holding it with your index finger is really only to lock to draw. If your thumb ring can come off at all in its shooting position none of this works. Hope this helps.

Okay, I think I understand.  I'm gathering that I should put pressure away from the joint and more toward the second bone toward the hand.  This would explain why my comfortable rings (though they don't fit too well and fly off) are different than the other rings.  I tried what Thomas said, and it helps SIGNIFICANTLY, so I may try to fashion a new ring with this in mind.

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5 (edited by misterwonky 2013-10-22 04:56:23)

Re: Making thumbrings without pain...

Hey guys, just a follow up on the problem in case anyone else searches about this.  The leather on the back was extremely successful, but since I'm making the rings I wanted to understand the physical attributes for comfort.  I came up with this ring (after a few more trials and errors).  Essentially, the comfort increased from the wider band around the thumb, a "contour" on the back of the band (for release comfort; bottom picture on the bottom of the band), and most significantly, I made the inside diameter slightly smaller and also rounded the inside shank (like a wedding band).  This forces it to seat slightly lower on the digit.  I have fat thumbs, but in draw the string part of the ring is exactly the same length as my thumb, so the string can't touch my skin  (the pictures make it look short...camera adds 20 lbs).  I shot about ~150 arrows from it with absolute no pain except some minor rubbing (I have soft mooshy IT nerd hands :\)  Critique it if you guys see something I could improve on.

Also this would be nothing without pictures, so here it is! big_smile

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Il6M_Qc7L-w/UmYBuvX_Y1I/AAAAAAAAAOo/--kW6KITT0c/w440-h330-p/IMAG0188.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-8yigxesQUtg/UmYBweLO9pI/AAAAAAAAAOw/Dxh7yUKCuJI/w440-h330-p/IMAG0189.jpg

Thumbs up +2

Re: Making thumbrings without pain...

Beautiful amgakji! I remember as a kid in Korea practicing the thumb draw, so as I am just starting archery again I thought I'd be the odd man out at the local archery club and go for it! After using my handmade thumb ring on a 18# bow, I noticed that the back of my knuckle had what looked like trails of blood blisters following each wrinkle! I feel tenderness just below the joint, under the thumb pad. Is this the pinching sensation people are talking about? Should I create a groove?
But what concerns me is the underlying bleeding...any tips?

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7 (edited by Mule 2014-02-16 13:03:37)

Re: Making thumbrings without pain...

Under the thumb pad is a tendon that curls your thumb, an ill fitting thumb ring can put too much pressure on this tendon and can cause soreness. That's why some thumb rings have a cut-out here, to make space for this tendon. http://www.archerynews.net/news_file/head_1847.jpg

Bleeding at the back of the thumb can be because the ring cuts off blood circulation because it's too tight when curled up for use. The ring should have a bit of space at the back (maybe only visible when you press the ring against the string) that lets your thumb  breathe.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/12212152/thumbring%20rear%20gap.jpg
The ring should rely on ellipsoid lock on the joint rather than overall tight fit on your thumb.

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Re: Making thumbrings without pain...

The gap totally worked! Thank you so much! No more discoloration of the knuckle!
However, now to cut the grove from the lip of the thumb ring...Wouldn't the string still ride on the tendon even with the grove, or does the string rest on the flatter side of the ring? I thought the edge of the ring is what catches the string. Please correct me if I'm wrong!

Sincerely,
Kirk

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Re: Making thumbrings without pain...

I think the string is supposed to rest on the thumb ring, not actually touch your thumb, but I wouldn't know for sure. I use a tug-ggakji (턱깍지/chinned thumb ring) http://www.smgung.co.kr/2010/image/r_2010_23_1.jpg

Just has a full ridge that stops the string riding up and also makes room for that tendon

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Re: Making thumbrings without pain...

Mule wrote:

I think the string is supposed to rest on the thumb ring, not actually touch your thumb, but I wouldn't know for sure. I use a tug-ggakji (턱깍지/chinned thumb ring) http://www.smgung.co.kr/2010/image/r_2010_23_1.jpg

Just has a full ridge that stops the string riding up and also makes room for that tendon

Or, perhaps I'm curving my thumb too far back? I noticed that if I just catch the ridge of the ring, no pain (but wonder if I can trust myself pulling the bow to full draw). If I curve my thumb around the string at 90 degrees to the string, then it hurts! Could that be the trick--just enough to catch the string?

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