Board for the discussion of topics related to Korean traditional archery
You are not logged in. Please login or register.
Korean Traditional Archery → Arrows → Carbon arrows "Maximal Carbon Arrow EDGE 6.2"
Just in case ...
Does anyone know this carbon arrows ? Are they worth the money ?
I ask because they are one of the very few options for lightweight arrows that are long enough (33"), and are available with proper spine (300 .. 800).
I need arrows for low-poundage training (25#) that don't cost a fortune.
I found a few dealer references, but no valuable review.
+1
Another option is Black Eagle shafts, but those are rather expensive.
There's also Alibow.
How do you know what spine you need?
If you torque the bow handle, I think 600 spine should work.
If you don't, it's hard. Maybe 1000. Maybe 700.
I'm guessing I need around 600-900 for my 31#@32" bow. I'm going with wood... problem is they'll end up being 14-15gpp. Bit high for a Korean bow... Which is why I kinda wanna barrel them.
Though my ~12gpps fly kinda nicely, point on distance close to 50m
A 600 spine would have been my first guess as well.
And 33" gives me a bit of headroom, shortening arrows reduces effective spine as well.
With the KTB (now WhiteFeather) 40# bow, a 500 spine, 31" flies quite well.
I use to try a khatra, but everything looks and feels a bit "artificial".
Actually, the arrows are intended for a bow from Alibow.
Getting your hands on "horse bows" with a non-centercut grip and draw >32" is quite difficult in Europe.
And because my "higher draw weight" bows seem to mess up my emerging technique, I take a step back to a 25# bow.
Well, and a bit of pain in the thumb, maybe.
Since it is more of an intermediate solution, I don't want to spend too much.
The bow is a cheaper fiberglass variant, and $20 arrows would be disproportionate IMHO.
Distances are probably not exceeding 30 meters.
+1
If I wanted to keep it inexpensive I would try the 500's I already have. They may work fine.
I started thumbring, many moons ago, shooting a 30# solid glass Hoyt longbow with 34" 2315 (340) Easton game getters. The camo ones if anyone remembers them .
Kicked some if I held it too tight & shot hard to the right but I learnt to be accurat-ish with it 
If I wanted to keep it inexpensive I would try the 500's I already have. They may work fine.
I started thumbring, many moons ago, shooting a 30# solid glass Hoyt longbow with 34" 2315 (340) Easton game getters. The camo ones if anyone remembers them .
Kicked some if I held it too tight & shot hard to the right but I learnt to be accurat-ish with it
Some people I know call those arrows "tend poles" ...
I guess it was just for training. Could you reach the "Korean target distance" of 145 meters with this combination ?
And BTW, they are still available. I used the cheaper Jazz arrows in 3D parcours, and they are much more robust than Carbon shafts.
For your proposal, this might work well.
I just need to check if they are long enough. Said Easton Powerflight have a maximal length of 30,5" for the 500.
Mentioned "Maxima Carbon" arrows are available up to 33".
Actually, I'm not quite sure what my draw length with thumb draw is.
The relatively high draw weight and the sub-optimal thumb ring keep me from shooting properly.
Hope the 25# Alibow model arrives soon.
Get calipers and consider https://www.customthumbrings.com - the spur ring seems nice...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-Bp5vLMtSM
I should 3d print more thumb rings soon. I have 2 other people on my list for 3d printing rings to..
With torque, you can shoot the stiffest arrows you want. But I personally want to shoot without it, or with a very minimal amount maybe.
What Alibow one are you getting? Segye? That's my practice bow for now. I padded the grip with paper and leather because it came too small.
In reverse order:
What Alibow one are you getting? Segye? That's my practice bow for now. I padded the grip with paper and leather because it came too small.
No, a Ming Kaiyuan (fiberglass variant), with 25# at 28".
Rationale is, it's mainly for technique training. The draw weight is not an challenge for me, to say the least.
In mediterranean style, I have 40/45#, and 30# during more quiet winter month.
I consider a bow like the Segye once I'm proficient with thumb draw, but not yet.
Unfortunately, Alibow has too many nice looking bows ...
With torque, you can shoot the stiffest arrows you want. But I personally want to shoot without it, or with a very minimal amount maybe.
I have read this, and actually realized it as well.
Tried a few arrows in thumb draw again yesterday, with my 40# white feather bow.
Arrows were Eastons 500, 30.5" Powerflight, and older XCP 420, 32"arrows.
Both flew quite nice, I noticed no difference.
Switched then to mediterranean, and the stiffer XCP didn't work, they were fishtailing like crazy.
Get calipers and consider https://www.customthumbrings.com - the spur ring seems nice...
I have a brass model of Alibow's "painless" model ordered, it should arrive with the bow.
According my measurements it is a bit tight, but files/sandpaper are ready.
The best leather model I currently have is cut from a heavy leather work glove.
But either the string is "cutting through" (at least after 20..30 shots), or it is to stiff and I can't bend the thumb properly.
Some people I know call those arrows "tend poles" ...
I guess it was just for training. Could you reach the "Korean target distance" of 145 meters with this combination ?
And BTW, they are still available. I used the cheaper Jazz arrows in 3D parcours, and they are much more robust than Carbon shafts.For your proposal, this might work well.
I just need to check if they are long enough. Said Easton Powerflight have a maximal length of 30,5" for the 500.
Mentioned "Maxima Carbon" arrows are available up to 33".
Actually, I'm not quite sure what my draw length with thumb draw is.
The relatively high draw weight and the sub-optimal thumb ring keep me from shooting properly.
Hope the 25# Alibow model arrives soon.
Ha ! Yes tent poles may be a good name. Didn't know the 2315 GG's were still available. I've only seen the black 340's. I was just starting & never shot more than 20 mtrs. Had no idea about Korean archery & 145 mtre ranges till some years later.
Interesting re the Jazz arrows vs the carbons. I have destroyed so many aluminiums . I like carbons better.
It's quite a learning process isn't it ? Good luck with it all. I hope you enjoy your Alibow. I bought a fibre glass one, the Qinghai model 37# @28" / 50# @ 33". Really hated it compared to laminated bows. Not so much hand shock but whole body shock 
Different design with heavier siyahs & draw weight than the one you ordered so yours should shoot quite differently.
+1
Didn't know the 2315 GG's were still available.
Not quite sure about the 2315 variant, but I could order Camo-colored Gamegetters here. Still having enough 2219 old tend poles laying around, and have no use for them.
I use my Jazz arrows in the 3D parcours, with a 30# recurve. And they hold up much better than equally priced carbons. Quite fine for the 3D distances below and up to 50 yards. But indestructible they are surely not ...
It's quite a learning process isn't it ? Good luck with it all. I hope you enjoy your Alibow. I bought a fibre glass one, the Qinghai model 37# @28" / 50# @ 33". Really hated it compared to laminated bows. Not so much hand shock but whole body shock lol
Different design with heavier siyahs & draw weight than the one you ordered so yours should shoot quite differently.
I'm quite aware the a fiberglass bow is not really "high quality", and prone to hand shock. Sold an old Kassai bear 60# this week (fiberglass as well), which I never really managed to master.
I don't expect too much "kickback" from a 25# bow, who is sought as a temporary step stone. Just need to do the 10.000 (or so) shots with a bow easy enough to handle, to automate the thumb draw technique.
As an additional pro, it's easy to stay above 10gpp with such a bow. The lighter the arrows, the more the bows are kicking in my experience.
As mentioned before here (or in another thread ?), my target is 40..45# at full draw. I think about to accompany my Kaya/WhiteFeather bow with a longer model, like one from Alibow. If so, it ain't gonna be a fiberglass model.
Hope the Kaiyuan's no slower than the Genghis model
i'd like to make cheap glass and butted wood Korean style bows. could have a lot of reflex if lower draw weight and somewhat wider...
As mentioned before here (or in another thread ?), my target is 40..45# at full draw. I think about to accompany my Kaya/WhiteFeather bow with a longer model, like one from Alibow. If so, it ain't gonna be a fiberglass model.
Sounds good. I've got an old Kaya 50# but I can't put a lot of hours on it daily so I ordered a Freddie Guru in 29# @31 to alternate & give my muscles a break every 2nd day.
That seems to be a good idea.
The 60# Kassai I sold recently was an even more extreme example. I could shoot it properly only after at least 6 week of intensified training (I'm about 5'8", and 120 lb).
According to medical recommendation I read, one should intensify draw weights slowly (over month, rather than weeks), else tendons and cartilage gets damaged, and might need years to fully recover.
Supposedly, excavated remains of English archers that died in medieval battles at young age support this point ...
Sounds good. I've got an old Kaya 50# but I can't put a lot of hours on it daily so I ordered a Freddie Guru in 29# @31 to alternate & give my muscles a break every 2nd day.
But that bow is so short..? probably max d/l 29"?
But that bow is so short..? probably max d/l 29"?
I dunno. Hopefully 29# @ 31" means it can be drawn to 31"
To come back to the original topic - I met a club fellow last weekend, who shoots this arrows.
He told me they hold up quite well, at least compared to other "general purpose" carbon arrows.
What could be an issue - they are quite lightweight. Had read it in the specs, but seeing/feeling is believing.
For higher poundage bows with arrow weight limits above 10gpp, they might kill the bow in the long run.
So they're nice for Korean bows, then
Pedro C wrote:But that bow is so short..? probably max d/l 29"?
I dunno. Hopefully 29# @ 31" means it can be drawn to 31"
Hmm. My 50" bow takes 32" max. Maybe half an inch more, but already stacking. My 53" bow can reach 33". So the ratio is around 1.55 min
The Guru is 44", so... 44/31~=1.42.
44"/x = 1.55 => x = 28.38"
I just think the limbs will be past parallel. It'll be interesting either way. I doubt that it'd break, since it's pretty light..
The Guru is 44", so... 44/31~=1.42.
44"/x = 1.55 => x = 28.38"
I just think the limbs will be past parallel. It'll be interesting either way. I doubt that it'd break, since it's pretty light..
Just received this morning. The pamphlet says 30.42" Max,. Works for me & my short left arm.
+1
Nice!!
Last weekend the shaft I ordered for testing arrived finally.
This were six with a .600 spine, and six with a .400 spine, all of said brand.
I prepared three of each for flight shooting tests, with short, clipped fletchings, the standard insert, and 30gn points, and full length of 33".
The weights are 240gn for the .600, and 300gn for the .400 arrows.
Might be able to test them over the Christmas holydays.
+1
Last weekend the shaft I ordered for testing arrived finally.
This were six with a .600 spine, and six with a .400 spine, all of said brand.
I prepared three of each for flight shooting tests, with short, clipped fletchings, the standard insert, and 30gn points, and full length of 33".
The weights are 240gn for the .600, and 300gn for the .400 arrows.
Might be able to test them over the Christmas holydays.
Have fun testing. I just got some new shafts for my 60# bows also. So far so good.
Thank you.
I will report results back - if the weather allows for testing.
And to everbody a nice Christmas, or whatever holyday one celebrates during the solstice. 
After having done some shooting over the holidays, I'd like to give some short assessment.
Overall, not much difference to other carbon arrows, except for the length/weight combination.
The shaft is very lightweight, and thus behaves quite "nervous" in a light setup, i.e. sensitive to unclean release.
Such errors exhibit in a visible fish-tailing.
I didn't do an explicit robustness test, but IMHO this is a target arrow.
I don't expect it to survive hits on stone or metal surfaces.
Which means, this is not my first choice for 3D parcours.
What I didn't like: the diameter of the insert rim is more than 1mm larger than the shaft diameter.
This exacerbates pulling the shaft, and increases wear. I don't know if the insert comes from the manufacturer or the dealer.
I had ordered the shafts, with nocks and inserts included.
The initial idea was to use it for flight shooting, but that didn't play out so well.
On every try, the light 240gn arrow was outperformed by a "standard" Easton Inspire 560, (350 grain), with 2.5" parabolic fletching.
To give some results:
Alibow Qinghai, 25# @28":
Maximal Carbon Edge 6.2 (240gn) : 187m
Easton Inspire 560 (350gn) : 193m
White Feather Forever Carbon, 30# :
Maximal Carbon Edge 6.2 (240gn) : 212m
Easton Inspire 560 (350gn) : 122m
White Feather Forever Carbon, 35# :
Maximal Carbon Edge 6.2 (240gn) : 225m
Easton Inspire 560 (350gn) : 250m
The distances were measured with GPS, which showed an accuracy of +-3m.
All shots had been done in about 30 minutes, including measuring and arrow recollection.
Tried a Forever Carbon with 40# as well, but with results very similar to the 35# bow.
I think I don't manage a clean release with this draw weight yet.
And finally I did some speed tests with quite interesting results.
Using the Bowometry smartphone app, this proved to be a bit difficult.
Even under moderate outdoor wind conditions, the app immediately "detected" a shot, with ridiculous arrow speeds (200...400m/s).
Thus I tried indoors, kneeling to shoot between the roof slope and a smokestack, the only place wich allows for the minimal distance of 10 m ...
Even then, I got a >400 m/s result occasionally.
Alibow Qinghai, 25# @28":
Maximal Carbon Edge 6.2 (240gn) : 180..185 fps average, 190 fps max
Easton Inspire 560 (350gn) : 160..165 fps average, 175 fps max
White Feather Forever Carbon, 30# :
Maximal Carbon Edge 6.2 (240gn) : 205..210 fps average, 225 fps max
Easton Inspire 560 (350gn) : 175..180 fps average, 186 fps max
White Feather Forever Carbon, 35# :
Maximal Carbon Edge 6.2 (240gn) : 212..218 fps average, 241 fps max
Easton Inspire 560 (350gn) : 185..190 fps average
To be honest, I think one needs to take this numbers with a grain of salt.
If wealth befalls me anytime soon, I might get a real ballistic chronograph ...
Nice review Ragnar.
One way around the wide inserts & lack of robustness would be to add a small aluminium footing behind them. Are you familiar with the concept?
Of course this would add a little more FOC, maybe exacerbating the fishtailing. Sounds like they may be a little soft in the spine. Can you try a lighter point ? You can maybe stabilise the flight with taller/longer fletching but you will get more drag.
Old but fun video on FOC below
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkLoD87wQiw
One way around the wide inserts & lack of robustness would be to add a small aluminium footing behind them. Are you familiar with the concept?
Yes, some of my archery club mates use such footings.
I was quite aware that these arrows are designed for target shooting, not for rough 3D tournaments.
If I was allowed to use carbon arrows in my bow class, I would choose something more robust, like e.g. the Easton Powerflight.
As mentioned somewhere before, I need to use wood/bamboo for tournaments for my class.
BTW, I have several different Easton arrow types, and the inserts (if not a glue-in tip) are always flush. You get what you pay for ...
Of course this would add a little more FOC, maybe exacerbating the fishtailing. Sounds like they may be a little soft in the spine. Can you try a lighter point ? You can maybe stabilise the flight with taller/longer fletching but you will get more drag.
The points were quite light from the start (30 grain).
You should have heard the "bang" when shooting this arrows 
...
With such a light tip weight, I suppose a 600 spine is on the "hard" side for 30#. But the 33" might fool me.
However, adding heavier tips (50 or 70 gn) reduces the fishtailing.
I made three arrows with larger fletching (3" shield, unclipped), which stabilize quicker.
I included these arrow in my speed and distance tests as well, but they scored significantly below the light version.
Old but fun video on FOC below
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkLoD87wQiw
I think I will look closer at home, when I have more time.
But I believe that guy just ignored how the low-FOC straw slid back.
With a different weight/surface ratio, the result would look a bit different.
Wow ! 30grains is light. I always find tuning tedious unless bare shaft flight is good.
Yes that video is not terribly scientific but it does show that an optimised arrow may be heavier than expected.
Happy tuning
Korean Traditional Archery → Arrows → Carbon arrows "Maximal Carbon Arrow EDGE 6.2"
Powered by PunBB, supported by Informer Technologies, Inc.
Currently installed 11 official extensions. Copyright © 2003–2009 PunBB.