Topic: Modern Korean Bow Reviews by a Korean (w/English sub titles)

Ran across this Youtube while wasting time on lock down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55AZT_WvXfY

I can't speak to the info presented or accuracy of the translation because I wasn't around in in the time frame he's talking about and my Korean language skill leaves a lot to be desired.

It is entertaining though.

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2 (edited by geoarcher 2020-05-04 05:36:53)

Re: Modern Korean Bow Reviews by a Korean (w/English sub titles)

Points I found interesting:

1) distinguishes the Joseon era war bar from a typical 'civilian' bow.  The later is essentially the gak-gung that is seen in use today if I understand him correctly.  I was trying to figure out how the two were distinguished from each other a while back.  Would be great to hear more if the two had a parallel development.

2) Cheil KTB.  Never heard of them before but apparently the product is quite good.  Not really in the market for a KTB these days but still good to know what else is out there.

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Re: Modern Korean Bow Reviews by a Korean (w/English sub titles)

Sometimes, like when looking at this Youtube, I wish my parents taught me to speak Korean.  But, my Grandmother wanted us to be "mainstreamed" into American society.

I worry about the details and nuances lost in translation of technical subjects.

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4 (edited by geoarcher 2020-05-04 23:45:46)

Re: Modern Korean Bow Reviews by a Korean (w/English sub titles)

ShinLa wrote:

I worry about the details and nuances lost in translation of technical subjects.

We'll take what we can get...not like anything else is really being discussed heavily here these days so whatever new info that is illuminating to some degree, especially if its Korean archery oriented, is welcomed.

What would be nice is a good discussion on 'torque' techniques from a Korean source (with the actual characters and Korean name for this) and in what context the technique should be used in exactly.   It seems to be, in name, jumbled up with the term 'khatra' these days thanks to the ATARN FB group but also here I noticed a bit.  'Khatra', a term that the Mamluke Taybugha writes of during his time in the 1300s Middle East, is to my understanding, a forward rotational technique and should not be mixed up or associated with the 'torque' that the Koreans use.

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Re: Modern Korean Bow Reviews by a Korean (w/English sub titles)

What would be nice is a good discussion on 'torque' techniques from a Korean source (with the actual characters and Korean name for this) and in what context the technique should be used in exactly.   It seems to be, in name, jumbled up with the term 'khatra' these days thanks to the ATARN FB group but also here I noticed a bit.  'Khatra', a term that the Mamluke Taybugha writes of during his time in the 1300s Middle East, is to my understanding, a forward rotational technique and should not be mixed up or associated with the 'torque' that the Koreans use.

Whenever I consciously try to apply khatra or torque my accuracy goes down.  So for now I just hold the bow and release the string.  The relatively low spine arrows I use may be allowing this to work for me.  (600 spine carbon shafts with a 40# bow)

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6 (edited by geoarcher 2020-05-05 03:48:07)

Re: Modern Korean Bow Reviews by a Korean (w/English sub titles)

ShinLa wrote:

What would be nice is a good discussion on 'torque' techniques from a Korean source (with the actual characters and Korean name for this) and in what context the technique should be used in exactly.   It seems to be, in name, jumbled up with the term 'khatra' these days thanks to the ATARN FB group but also here I noticed a bit.  'Khatra', a term that the Mamluke Taybugha writes of during his time in the 1300s Middle East, is to my understanding, a forward rotational technique and should not be mixed up or associated with the 'torque' that the Koreans use.

Whenever I consciously try to apply khatra or torque my accuracy goes down.  So for now I just hold the bow and release the string.  The relatively low spine arrows I use may be allowing this to work for me.  (600 spine carbon shafts with a 40# bow)

Yes arrows with a spine that suites the bow and how it functions minimizes the need according to those who I've talked to elsewhere who have investigated this matter.  But what was the technique actually called in Korean?  Its totally different too compared to Taybugha's technique (khatra) which is a forward rotation of the bow as described in Saracen Archery.  Khatra's purpose is not to increase accuracy but rather speed and this is actually clearly stated in the translation of Taybugha's words.  So jumbling it with the torque technique used in Korean archery is wrong yet a frequent and common assertion on various Asiatic archery internet forum on social media discussion pages.

Actually, there is even the possibility that the torque's purpose in Korean archery does not actually facilitate an increase in arrow flight accuracy.  In a discussion I had with someone elsewhere, they mentioned how those who practice the technique over in Korea will not include accuracy as the specific reason as to why the do it.  Rather allegedly, its been said they proclaim utilization of torque simply because its 'how they were taught' or even that 'it just works well' but nothing specific about accuracy.

In Kyudo, the reason the bow turns after release ('yugari' or 'yugaieity') is not actually explicitly explained to increase accuracy either.  Rather the exact reason is portrayed as an unknown.

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Re: Modern Korean Bow Reviews by a Korean (w/English sub titles)

Perhaps the bow turn in traditional Korean archery is related to how the bow grip is taught and practiced.  For example the Olympic archers bow drops forward after a shot due to the lack of a grip on the handle.

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Re: Modern Korean Bow Reviews by a Korean (w/English sub titles)

So the guidance I recieved on the technique from a Korean archer was to twist the handle counterclockwise.  The arrow will then keep a distance from the 'bow body' according to the correspondence I have on the matter.  Actually according to this correspondence, it essentially would ensure a clean pass of the arrow without wrapping around the riser thus improving accuracy.  There is a YouTube video out there demonstrating this too.  Still very different from khatra though as the rotation there is forward to improve speed while here is sideways to improve accuracy if I am reading my correspondence correctly.

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Re: Modern Korean Bow Reviews by a Korean (w/English sub titles)

geoarcher wrote:

Points I found interesting:

2) Cheil KTB.  Never heard of them before but apparently the product is quite good.  Not really in the market for a KTB these days but still good to know what else is out there.

YouTube with info on Cheil KTB

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxQ1yqK … mp;index=6

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Re: Modern Korean Bow Reviews by a Korean (w/English sub titles)

geoarcher wrote:

So the guidance I recieved on the technique from a Korean archer was to twist the handle counterclockwise.  The arrow will then keep a distance from the 'bow body' according to the correspondence I have on the matter.  Actually according to this correspondence, it essentially would ensure a clean pass of the arrow without wrapping around the riser thus improving accuracy.  There is a YouTube video out there demonstrating this too.  Still very different from khatra though as the rotation there is forward to improve speed while here is sideways to improve accuracy if I am reading my correspondence correctly.

I will need to learn how to do this when I start using stiffer arrows.

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11 (edited by geoarcher 2020-05-05 19:59:08)

Re: Modern Korean Bow Reviews by a Korean (w/English sub titles)

ShinLa wrote:

YouTube with info on Cheil KTB

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxQ1yqK … mp;index=6

Interesting, no site but you can go to the guy in the video and he will be your middle man I'm guessing.  Pass.  Considering that almost everyone in the world now has either a web page, etsy, ebay, or FB account etc. etc.

In other news: its come to my attention that SMG's site has gone away.  hmmmm.....

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