Topic: Shooting baby arrows in a bamboo shaft?

I have seen some YouTube videos with Korean archers shooting "baby arrows" or 애 기 살, out of a tong-a (bamboo shaft with portion cut out to insert short arrow). Has anybody here shot one and any thoughts on it as to practicality, fun factor, danger factor??? It looked very cool to say the least, and also in the recently released Korean movie arrow, the ultimate weapon the main star uses one to catch a running deer which was a very cool shot. I think I can get ny hands on one but wanted to know of anybody here had experience with this? Basically the bamboo shaft holds the short arrow, which looks to be 12-14 inches and is loaded into the bamboo shaft and shot out like a dart it was very interesting.

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2 (edited by WillScarlet 2011-12-01 03:30:56)

Re: Shooting baby arrows in a bamboo shaft?

Looked interesting, but was this  something done historically, or a "hollywood" gimmic?
Can't see any advantage in it's use, would seem that something that small (short) would be
unstable at any distance, and would also lose a lot of momentum (penetration). Must be a lot of friction also, sliding down that long "barrel"

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Re: Shooting baby arrows in a bamboo shaft?

But.... that "barrel" does have a name, so maybe it WAS used historically.

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Re: Shooting baby arrows in a bamboo shaft?

I can't copy the link but if you go on YouTube, it says: Korean archery mini arrow pyeon-Jeon.

Put that in search box in YouTube and they demonstrate the speed between the regular bamboo arrow, and olympic style bow, and the mini arrow wins in speed. It even pierced a metal plate And a mannequin. It looks very cool and is like a rifle barrel that shoots darts from a bow. I have never seen this outside of the Korean archers so I think it is safe to say this is an ancient Korean secret technique.

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Re: Shooting baby arrows in a bamboo shaft?

Yes, it is a very historic weapon.  I have one and have shot it many times, but it is something you have to get used to and be careful of.

Just to give you an idea about its power and cast, I shot one that clocked at 283fps; I used a 50# bow and a half-size, 200gr arrow.  Using the same setup, I shot one over a ski hill (1,700 feet).  When shooting close-up, I constantly punched through the bag target.

Not only did the short arrow/overdraw do well in the power and distance categories, in war it was useful, as an enemy couldn't shoot the arrows back at you, unless he also had an overdraw.

Another name for the setup is tong-a (overdraw) and pyeongjeon half-size arrow.

The attached picture is of me shooting one several years ago (when I had more hair tongue ) at my old club in Gyeongju.

http://www.koreanarchery.org/tongah3.jpg

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Re: Shooting baby arrows in a bamboo shaft?

Great pics Thomas! 283 FPS?!! Thats super fast!! Most compounds today can barely shoot that in real world contrary to what their manufactuerers say.. Amazing for a stick bow!!

I also found one in Christian iepure's album I hope he doesn't mind... Maybe he can chime in...

http://i1039.photobucket.com/albums/a478/cristian_iepure3/Mu%20Deok%20Jung/IMG_8983.jpg

Wow looks very cool but also possibly dangerous with the improper technique, wouldnt want a half size arrow go through my hand, ha! But in the videos I did see the penetration was incredible and the speed was also fastest, it's like shooting a hot rod arrow, I'm also interested because then it means I won't have to toss out all the bamboo arrows that I break at the tip every time a rock jumps in front of it. If I can cut them down and use them In a tong-a it would be great. Any idea how where to get or how much they run??

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Re: Shooting baby arrows in a bamboo shaft?

Looks too dangerous to me.................like a "Murphy's Law" thing. Anyway, from what I've read, you don't break too many bamboo arrows.

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8 (edited by jbl 2011-12-01 23:14:04)

Re: Shooting baby arrows in a bamboo shaft?

Thomas was that picture form 1963:)

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Re: Shooting baby arrows in a bamboo shaft?

Trident wrote:

Wow looks very cool but also possibly dangerous with the improper technique, wouldnt want a half size arrow go through my hand, ha! But in the videos I did see the penetration was incredible and the speed was also fastest, it's like shooting a hot rod arrow, I'm also interested because then it means I won't have to toss out all the bamboo arrows that I break at the tip every time a rock jumps in front of it. If I can cut them down and use them In a tong-a it would be great. Any idea how where to get or how much they run??

Yes, they can be dangerous, as the tube tends to flex (although most channels and arrow tips are made to help preclude that), so it is possible for the arrow to jump the channel.  I had it happen once and it took a chunk out of the upper limb of the bow at the arrow strike plate; amazingly, the bow was still very functional--I fixed it up, shot it for quite a while, and someone bought it from me later.

You will probably find that many of the pyeonjeon are made from broken full-size arrows (I made many from both bamboo and carbon).

My first one--seen in the picture--was given to me by Mr. Yoo Se-hyeon, the son and heir of Mr. Yoo Young-gi, the most famous fletcher here in Korea.  Later, I made my own, including a few I made in the States from "Martha Stewart" bamboo poles I bought at K-Mart.

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Re: Shooting baby arrows in a bamboo shaft?

jbl wrote:

Thomas was that picture form 1963:)

I doubt I had that much hair back in '63...  big_smile

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Re: Shooting baby arrows in a bamboo shaft?

Will- Oh yes the bamboo arrows break, especially when I miss...  tongue  I noticed that the ones that I dont bind break at the tip or split them in the front. The ones that did have binding actually broke right before the binding. I'm told that either you do binding or put in a dowel... Haven't had much time lately so will try the self nock with dowel insert,  and dowel insert at the point sometime on a snow day. For now, as long as I stay on target they have been very resilient and tough. They seem tougher than wood, but I have not shot many wood arrows as the ones I did have did break on me, and got tossed out. Was thinking of getting a tong-a in the near future so I can salvage the broken arrows both carbon and bamboo and give them a second life as baby arrows... Just a thought.. I just find it very interesting that this was used it's so unlike any primitive traditional archery tackle I've seen or read about.

WillScarlet wrote:

Looks too dangerous to me.................like a "Murphy's Law" thing. Anyway, from what I've read, you don't break too many bamboo arrows.

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Re: Shooting baby arrows in a bamboo shaft?

Does anyone have an photos of how the "chute" and arrow, are held in the hand. I want to try this! But am very much afraid!

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Re: Shooting baby arrows in a bamboo shaft?

raven wrote:

Does anyone have an photos of how the "chute" and arrow, are held in the hand. I want to try this! But am very much afraid!

Although I never took any pictures of the hold, I can tell you, simply, about it.  There is a string loop at the end of the tong-a that goes around your wrist; that catches the tube after the arrow is shot.  The arrow is placed in the breech of the tube and the string is fit into its nock; just like with a regular arrow, the index finger pushes the arrow inward (instead of into the body of the bow, it does it against the tube).  The tube and arrow are drawn back; when the string is released, the string pushes the arrow down the tube's channel.  That's it in a nutshell, although it takes a lot of getting used to.

Here are some screenshots of a Korean archer shooting one:

http://www.koreanarchery.org/kma41.JPG

http://www.koreanarchery.org/kma42.JPG

http://www.koreanarchery.org/kma43.JPG

http://www.koreanarchery.org/kma44.JPG

http://www.koreanarchery.org/kma45.JPG

http://www.koreanarchery.org/kma46.JPG

http://www.koreanarchery.org/kma47.JPG

http://www.koreanarchery.org/kma48.JPG

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Re: Shooting baby arrows in a bamboo shaft?

Thanks for explaining how it works and for the pics Thomas, it seems pretty straight forward... The bamboo tong-a is what you hold the arrow against instead of the side of the bow, and release  letting the string spring forward alongside the tong-a, propelling the arrow down the side of the shaft. This is basically an ancient version of an overdraw using light and short arrows for maximum speed. Wonder how the aiming is, and accuracy, I would imagine it takes some practice and excercising of technique to get this down like all things...

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Re: Shooting baby arrows in a bamboo shaft?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH94dw-Y … r_embedded

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Re: Shooting baby arrows in a bamboo shaft?

Trident wrote:

Thanks for explaining how it works and for the pics Thomas, it seems pretty straight forward... The bamboo tong-a is what you hold the arrow against instead of the side of the bow, and release  letting the string spring forward alongside the tong-a, propelling the arrow down the side of the shaft. This is basically an ancient version of an overdraw using light and short arrows for maximum speed. Wonder how the aiming is, and accuracy, I would imagine it takes some practice and excercising of technique to get this down like all things...

When you push against the side of the tong-a, the pressure pushes the tube against the bow. 

Like anything new, it takes practice to get used to.

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Re: Shooting baby arrows in a bamboo shaft?

Thomas,

That is just wonderful! Thank you for the explanation.
Also the youtube link was helpful

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Re: Shooting baby arrows in a bamboo shaft?

Another video from Youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJS9M7SzarA

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Re: Shooting baby arrows in a bamboo shaft?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5wT14YA … AAAAAAAJAA
done one myself
but a little unhappy how the string gets eaten

low gpp aint a problem for the korean style bows?

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Re: Shooting baby arrows in a bamboo shaft?

Warbeast wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5wT14YA … AAAAAAAJAA
done one myself
but a little unhappy how the string gets eaten

low gpp aint a problem for the korean style bows?

I never noticed any problems.

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21 (edited by Warbeast 2012-03-20 21:02:31)

Re: Shooting baby arrows in a bamboo shaft?

okay, most bow maufactor dictate a minumum gpp or arrow weight,
and everytime i try it or someone sees it, the goy nuts about the low arrow weight and that it would damage the bow

how do you prevent the string from getting abused by the bamboo guide?

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Re: Shooting baby arrows in a bamboo shaft?

Never shoot with guide but planning to get one myself. I think rounding the edge with sand paper plus string serving will do.

Shooting low gpp arrows from KTB is not a big deal as limb mass of this bow is very low. Style of shooting which have the bow turn 180 degree as arrow release also decrease inertial shock. 

I didn't say low gpp is good for KTB but it does less damage than heavy-long wooded limb bows.

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Re: Shooting baby arrows in a bamboo shaft?

please don`t try it with carbon arrows or plastic fletch arrows...
it can be pierce your hand...  XD