Topic: Anchor point / draw length for short distance shooting?

Hello,
my name is Anna and I'm from Germany. I've started practising with korean style bows in 2010. Although I found neither trainer nor literature on the subject, I've been using thumb release since the very beginning. Of course it took some time, but right now I feel like it works quite well. The korean bows are great fun to shoot and over the last years, I have proved to prejudiced "western" archers that they are not "children's toys" and very well suitable for precise shooting. Most competitions I visit have 3D targets in the shape of animals, the distance is 5-55m. Recently I got the book by Mr. Duvernay and I'm reading it now, finding I got many things right with my "trial and error" approach. Still I learn lots of new interesting facts.

I have a question concerning use of the korean bow for short-distance (<60m) shooting. I personally feel very comfortable with an anchor point under the ear, resulting in a shorter draw than the one that seems to be common in korean traditional archery. I once saw somebody with a short draw like that in a video from korea, the people were doing short-distance shooting, some on moving targets, in a forest. This looked very similar to what I have to do at our competitions. I can imagine it is easier to aim with the anchor point under the ear because the arrow comes very close to the eye.

Is there a separate shooting style for short-distance shooting / hunting? Is ist common to use a shorter draw for these tasks? Or is the style for the 145m target shooting considered "universal" and used similarly on any other distance?

Thanks a lot for any comments / tips on the issue!

Best regards,
Anna

Attached: My 40# Kaya KTB at about 29" draw, anchor point at the ear, wooden arrow, amgagji-like horn thumb ring.

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Re: Anchor point / draw length for short distance shooting?

Hi Anna,

Welcome.  I'm glad you are finding my book useful!

Regarding your question about short distance shooting, the Korean bows can be used quite effectively with either a long or short draw--whatever someone feels comfortable with.  First, though, there is no longer short distance shooting in truly traditional archery in Korea; however, some people/clubs sometimes set up short distance for special occasions and such. 

Having shot both long and short distances with Korean bows, I can speak a little bit about what I found works for me.  I think the biggest obstacle will have to do with archer's paradox (or deflection, depending upon the spine of the arrow), due to the short distance.  For that reason, it is important that the arrow clear the bow directly upon release; in that way, the paradox (or deflection) will not be as exaggerated as it is when the arrow tries to bend around the bow.  So, be sure to grip the bow correctly (diagonally across the palm, as in the book), give power to the lower part of the handle (pushing slightly upward) and, when you release, let the bow pivot in your hand slightly, with the string rotating away from your bow arm.

See how that works for you and please let us know.


Thomas

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Re: Anchor point / draw length for short distance shooting?

Hi Thomas,
thank you very much for the quick response! I am relieved to hear I'm not doing it all wrong. Archer's paradox and deflection don't seem to be a problem for me at the moment. Learning how to grip and turn the bow correctly was an epiphany. Since then, my arrows fly quite straight most of the time - and I spend a lot less money on them because the cheapest work just fine. The KTB makes practice easy: If the arrow touches the bow, it makes a noise and doesn't fly straight, so I know immediately if it was a good or a bad shot.

In addition to the rotation of the bow grip, I push it forward away from me to avoid the bow arm falling down or moving to the side. I try doing this straight so the force on upper and lower limb is equal. Do I understand you right one should push the lower part of the handle more? Does this mean the lower tip of the bow points a bit forward after the shot? I thought that the bow should be vertical after the shot or with the upper limb tilted a bit forward. I'm curious how a correct follow-through should look, especially after a straight shot at a very short distance (5-10m). My current attempt is portrayed in the attachment.

Do you personally use a different form or anchor point for very short distances? Imagine a small target 5-10m away, on the ground. Isn't it difficult to bend that much down and forward with the korean archery "standard" long draw and arrow pointing upward?

Anna

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Re: Anchor point / draw length for short distance shooting?

Never have your lower limb point forward. What you show in the picture is fine. Personally I push forward much more, so the bow ends up parallel to the ground.

Ask someone (or set up a camera) at full draw. If the lower limb is bent more than the upper limb then push more in the upper part of the grip. The limbs should be ballanced, but if out of ballance, it's better to have the top limb bent more. For me, the accuracy went up alot after I started to put more force in the upper llimb. It also straightens up the wrist, and makes the bow easier to draw. You have to find the ballance of your bow, so there is no universal rule.

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Re: Anchor point / draw length for short distance shooting?

For my part I agree strongly with Storm on this point. I push the bow to tilt it forward from the top and also grip the bow almost from the side as the Japanese Yumi archers do. When done correctly with a smooth release the effect is almost magical. The arrow rest is the air. Slightly above your thumb and slightly to the right of the bow (for a right handed thumb ring archer). If done perfectly the twisting torsion on the bow will make the string will align itself to the flight path of the arrow and an arrow of any spine will fly straight out of your bow. Sounds simple but this is the most complex thing in archery. No one can tell you how much to twist or how much to tilt . You have to determine that yourself empirically. It can take years. You have one of only two types of bows that I know of that can be drawn and flexed in 3 dimensions to make the perfect shot. The Japanese Yumi is one and the Korean traditional bow is the other. If you pursue this, once it happens you will be hooked but you may have to shoot a thousand times before it happens again. It is that elusive but your accuracy at short distances will improve remarkably.

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Re: Anchor point / draw length for short distance shooting?

tonygt19 wrote:

You have one of only two types of bows that I know of that can be drawn and flexed in 3 dimensions to make the perfect shot. The Japanese Yumi is one and the Korean traditional bow is the other. If you pursue this, once it happens you will be hooked but you may have to shoot a thousand times before it happens again.

I understand what you mean about the twist of the bowhand, but what do you mean by 3 dimensions?

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Re: Anchor point / draw length for short distance shooting?

Ann,
I couldn't hit anything with a korean bow and thumb ring draw until I tried this method shown by Justin Ma on Youtube. Essentially you empirically find where the arrow goes as you used incrementally longer draw lengths. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzhA0AsNx6U
iCooper,
When you draw the bow normally you flex the limbs only in the Z axis forward and back . A simple release sends the arrow nock in that one direction. When you twist the bow grip as you draw you slightly twist the limbs sideways. On release that sends the nock a fraction of an inch to the right on the X axis before the nock leaves the string. That's a second dimension of travel which will align the arrow with its direction of flight. When you tilt the bow forward in the grip and release that raises the nock slightly before it leaves the string. That's a third dimension of travel that lifts the feathers off your thumb knuckle as the arrow clears the bow. If done correctly it feels as if you're flinging the arrow from the bow without it touching bow or thumb as it leaves. If you work very very hard at this you should be able to do it consistently in about 10 years. I certainly can't yet.

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Re: Anchor point / draw length for short distance shooting?

ann wrote:

Hi Thomas,
thank you very much for the quick response! I am relieved to hear I'm not doing it all wrong. Archer's paradox and deflection don't seem to be a problem for me at the moment. Learning how to grip and turn the bow correctly was an epiphany. Since then, my arrows fly quite straight most of the time - and I spend a lot less money on them because the cheapest work just fine. The KTB makes practice easy: If the arrow touches the bow, it makes a noise and doesn't fly straight, so I know immediately if it was a good or a bad shot.

In addition to the rotation of the bow grip, I push it forward away from me to avoid the bow arm falling down or moving to the side. I try doing this straight so the force on upper and lower limb is equal. Do I understand you right one should push the lower part of the handle more? Does this mean the lower tip of the bow points a bit forward after the shot? I thought that the bow should be vertical after the shot or with the upper limb tilted a bit forward. I'm curious how a correct follow-through should look, especially after a straight shot at a very short distance (5-10m). My current attempt is portrayed in the attachment.

Do you personally use a different form or anchor point for very short distances? Imagine a small target 5-10m away, on the ground. Isn't it difficult to bend that much down and forward with the korean archery "standard" long draw and arrow pointing upward?

Anna

Anna,

Sorry I didn't reply sooner, but life has been a little busy of late...

Regarding your questions--Yes, we put the power into the lower part of the handle, but you shouldn't be pushing the lower limb forward any. 

Whether shooting long distance or short distance, my form and anchor remain the same.  I don't personally find it difficult to do.


T

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