• Arto
  • New member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2017-03-04
  • Posts: 7

Topic: Bow for a beginner: draw weight and style?

Hi. I joined this forum a short while ago and have been very interested in trying traditional archery. I have Budo backgroung but had to stop a decade ago because on knee problems, but would love to train something else that would still be related to Far Eastern culture and/or martial arts. I´m 58, tall (over 6´) but not in great physical shape. A year and half ago I got left shoulder problems, slight rotator cuff syndrome, by trying to learn kayak rolling too eagerly and using too much power. (No, I did not learn the bloody thing.   tongue  ). I had to do physical therapy for some months, but the shoulder is now OK. Here are my questions:

Draw weight for a complete beginner? By reading this forum and others, I have understood that it would be important to start with a light bow, to learn proper technique and to avoid injuries. Maybe 30 lbs? 35?

Bow style? I´m interested mostly in two bow and archery styles, Korean and Manchu. The latter does not seem best style to start, because the Manchu bows available in the net seem to be mostly $100 junk or in the $400-500 price range. Plus, I feel that the basic idea of Manchu bows would work better in much heavier bows. There are nice and well-made looking Korean bows around $200, both Korean and ones like Alibow´s Segye bow. I would not like to buy an expensive bow to start with, as I suppose I would like to upgrade to a heavier bow in the not-too-distant future.

I like Alibow´s Chinese models, too, like Tang Short and Long Siyah models, that cost little less than $200 in laminated versions. Long siyah model looks interesting, with its non-contact ears. Would it be easier for a beginner to start with a bow that would be somewhat longer than typical Korean bow? I´ve understood the Korean bows are not necessarily the easiest ones to start with? My dear wife thinks I should join a local archery club to learn, but I just can´t get myself interested in Olympic shooting...

All suggestions and opinions would be most welcome.  smile Arto

https://www.amazon.com/Longbowmaker-Bla … korean+bow
https://www.amazon.com/Longbowmaker-Tra … 4NSHVAVSW3
https://www.amazon.com/Longbowmaker-Tra … 712XT2CGGN

Thumbs up

  • Registered: 2012-06-12
  • Posts: 413
  • User Karma: 16

Re: Bow for a beginner: draw weight and style?

To me, what Korean Armory offers for beginners makes the most sense:

https://koreanarmory.com/index.php?id_p … ;id_lang=1

I think its only like a 200 dollar set.  Super light but 22 pounds is fine really.  I'm currently using a Yumi at that draw weight in order to learn proper form.  I intend myself to get a light Korean like this in the near future to clean up some of my form.

Thumbs up

3 Reply by dave42 (edited by dave42 2017-03-10 00:55:33)

  • Registered: 2016-10-08
  • Posts: 19
  • User Karma: 3

Re: Bow for a beginner: draw weight and style?

I'd recommend contacting the seller and find out how long that bow actually is since that info is not listed. As flexible as these bows are, I doubt a 44inch short carbon bow is going to accommodate a 6 foot tall guy shooting a 7 or 8chi arrows very well. Not for very long anyway.

My teacher actually starts people out with bows light than that. At least 2 guys at my jung started with 18# just so they can get the form right.

Thumbs up

4 Reply by geoarcher (edited by geoarcher 2017-03-10 01:38:12)

  • Registered: 2012-06-12
  • Posts: 413
  • User Karma: 16

Re: Bow for a beginner: draw weight and style?

Korean armory's bow according to the response I got from them can accommodate a 32 inch draw.  That's not too bad for a relatively tall person but what really matters is arm span.  In Kyudo, to figure out arm span in relation to appropriate arrow length measure from the center of your throat to tip of your finger an then add maybe 5-6cm.  This is a pretty good way to determine your arrow length and turned out pretty accurate for myself.  If you're tall, yeah you'll probably have to get a 'jangjung' - longer than usual Korean bow.  If you're set on Korean.

I'd stay away from Alibows and probably the other one's hyper linked.  If you go with a Korean bow, buy a YMG, SMG, KTB...basically anything that is offered over at Freddie Wong's site (koreanbows.com).  If not those, then buy something from Cinnabar.  The Qing Dragon II has a 36" draw and everything Justin imports is quality.

Thumbs up

  • Registered: 2016-10-08
  • Posts: 19
  • User Karma: 3

Re: Bow for a beginner: draw weight and style?

In that case the korean armory bow is probably fine. Kyudo draw is quite a bit different than Korean draw though, stance, grip, shoulder angles, draw length, etc. Chinese Ming style is also pretty different. All depends on what the op wants to do.

Thumbs up

6 Reply by geoarcher (edited by geoarcher 2017-03-10 02:08:16)

  • Registered: 2012-06-12
  • Posts: 413
  • User Karma: 16

Re: Bow for a beginner: draw weight and style?

He probably would be interested in anything that can accommodate a long draw since he's rather tall so the Qing I mention, which is actually Manchu era not Ming, is relevant which he also expressed interest in.  But arm span in relation to arrow length is really more key here.

Yes these styles have different techniques although I've found the Kyudo way of measuring arm span in relation to arrow length appropriate for just about all these Asiatic traditions.  And one really needs to figure out just what their approximate arrow length would be in order to select the most appropriate bow type and or size for themselves.

Thumbs up

  • Registered: 2016-10-08
  • Posts: 19
  • User Karma: 3

Re: Bow for a beginner: draw weight and style?

I'm well aware of the differences between Ming and Qing. I brought up the Ming style because it's yet another style with plenty of stuff that's different and is one of the more popular styles due to Justin's book.

And no, the kyudo way of determining length is not universal in all Asian styles.

Thumbs up

8 Reply by geoarcher (edited by geoarcher 2017-03-10 04:37:16)

  • Registered: 2012-06-12
  • Posts: 413
  • User Karma: 16

Re: Bow for a beginner: draw weight and style?

If you measure from the throat to the tip of you finger you can get a good idea of what your arrow length will be indeed.  I measure 36 inches and that is actually a great arrow length for me.  Depending how he wants to draw the bow he can add 5-6cm or not.  But there in, it depends on how he wants to draw.  I prefer to shoot right up to the point of the arrow.  Not everyone does and some traditions vary.  If he goes with a Korean bow, and shoots with traditional Korean blunted tips, he'll have to compensate for the length of the blunted tip since you're not supposed to draw past that.

Actually, most ways of measuring for arrow length follow similar principles and usually recommend adding about an inch or so kinda like here:

http://www.learn-archery.com/beginner-arrow-length.html

bluelake mentions a similar approach for Korean archery as well although a fist is made instead but you measure from the chin which is about the same as from the middle of the throat:

http://www.koreanarchery.org/punbb/viewtopic.php?id=330

Thumbs up

9 Reply by dave42 (edited by dave42 2017-03-10 04:46:00)

  • Registered: 2016-10-08
  • Posts: 19
  • User Karma: 3

Re: Bow for a beginner: draw weight and style?

If you think oh it's only an inch or 2 it doesn't make a difference, I don't know what to tell you. Why you are mixing styles into a generic Asian'ish glob with stuff from a modern style page with specifics on olympic recurves on a Korean traditional archery forum is beyond me.

The op posted his question, we both provided info that's hopefully helpful.

Thumbs up

10 Reply by geoarcher (edited by geoarcher 2017-03-10 05:27:54)

  • Registered: 2012-06-12
  • Posts: 413
  • User Karma: 16

Re: Bow for a beginner: draw weight and style?

dave42 wrote:

If you think oh it's only an inch or 2 it doesn't make a difference, I don't know what to tell you. Why you are mixing styles into a generic Asian'ish glob with stuff from a modern style page with specifics on olympic recurves on a Korean traditional archery forum is beyond me.

The op posted his question, we both provided info that's hopefully helpful.

Well like I said it depends how he wants to shoot the bow.  Also he mentioned many different types of bows he is interested in and I gave him a myriad of ways to measure which he can choose himself as I did in the last post so there's no reason to get uppity m8 or really even accuse me of genericizing things into an 'Asia'ish glob' as you say.  A Korean bow with a max draw length of 32 inches is not universally good for tall people when factoring in arm span. Ergo, its more important for him at this point to understand arm span in relation to draw length and how that will factor into choosing an appropriate bow plus arrows.

So, he can measure the Korean way or some other way depending on how he wants to draw the bow and based on whatever type of bow he chooses.

Thumbs up

11 Reply by Pedro C (edited by Pedro C 2017-03-13 14:08:58)

  • From: SoCal
  • Registered: 2015-08-12
  • Posts: 319
  • User Karma: 15

Re: Bow for a beginner: draw weight and style?

I think you'll first have to decide which style you want to practice.

If you happen to live in Southern California, there's master Kim's club. Justin Ma also frequents in SoCal.

Some of the Alibow fiberglass models are good, yet cheap. Like the Turkish if you want to do a shorter draw... or the "Genghis Khan", which should be great if you're gonna do Gao Ying style. But those laminated ones should be fine too..

I got the Segye, it's fine but doesn't come with a proper jum-tong (the big grip stuff). I glued a bunch of paper, wrapped with suede and now it's fine..

The Segye looks the same as that longbowmaker "black shadow" bow (I guess they 'borrowed' the name from MJ system...)

There was another UK site that had firefox or windfighter bows for cheap that should work fine. Probably the best bet..


You should stay below 30lbs for a first. It's always good to have a light bow, even when you become strong enough to pull 100#, if you do, so your first should be light.

I got the 25#@30" Segye, around 30#@32", and it's fast enough to be satisfactory to 50m, I'm sure it'd work fine for hunting small game too.

Arrows are very important too... Alibow seems to measure them from nock throat to tip of point. It's hard to find a proper spine if you're shooting without khatra(bow handle torque), hard to learn a clean release..

There's a few ways to measure arrow length in Korean archery. If you're going with Korean archery, it seems like 8 chi arrows (33.4" nock groove to tip) are the very longest you should use, unless you're a giant.

This way should work well if your armspan isn't long/you're of shorter stature - and it's for a very long draw, almost to your shoulder. It seems like most people doing Korean archery actually draw less than this (relative to their body).

With this method, I get a measurement of around 35", but I use 2ja7.5chi(32.8") arrows and draw 32".

https://www.facebook.com/gungdomaster/p … 2336612046

Pedro C's Website

Thumbs up

12 Reply by Pedro C (edited by Pedro C 2017-03-10 07:06:11)

  • From: SoCal
  • Registered: 2015-08-12
  • Posts: 319
  • User Karma: 15

Re: Bow for a beginner: draw weight and style?

http://www.merlinarchery.co.uk/kaya-win … ow-50.html

50" should be good to a 32" draw length from the back (7.5 chi arrows)

Pedro C's Website

Thumbs up

  • From: SoCal
  • Registered: 2015-08-12
  • Posts: 319
  • User Karma: 15

Re: Bow for a beginner: draw weight and style?

I think I'd go with this one over the Genghis Khan, seems to have more flipped tips

https://www.alibowshop.com/blank-rwrlr/ming-kaiyuan

Pedro C's Website

Thumbs up

14 Reply by Pedro C (edited by Pedro C 2017-03-11 06:05:33)

  • From: SoCal
  • Registered: 2015-08-12
  • Posts: 319
  • User Karma: 15

Re: Bow for a beginner: draw weight and style?

This one looks cool too. Rather long.. but for Korean archery, the windfighter above should be very good, similar price.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AF-Archery-20-5 … HnN3LX2WsQ

Pedro C's Website

Thumbs up

  • Arto
  • New member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2017-03-04
  • Posts: 7

Re: Bow for a beginner: draw weight and style?

Thank you so much for all the advise and suggestions! Great information!

I decided for the 25# Kaya Windfighter. It looks nice, has that thick Korean style grip, and was very good value for the money indeed. Merlin Archery has a sales price for it (£108), and by buying inside EU, I don't have to pay VAT or customs ( I live in Finland). I hadn't noticed before that Korean bows can be found also here - not only at Amazon, EBay and Chinese or Korean net shops. I noticed that both Merlin Archery and The Longbow Shop carry these "horse bows". Maybe there are others, too?

Geoarcher suggested koreanarmory.com. Interesting place I had not noticed at all before your reply, but strange site - I can't find the prices anywhere? Or can't I just navigate there?

My bow is already on the way. So, the next logical question: where to buy suitable arrows for the #25 Kaya? (Preferably not too expensive.) And what is 'chi' mentioned in Pedro's reply?

smile Arto

Thumbs up

  • Registered: 2012-06-12
  • Posts: 413
  • User Karma: 16

Re: Bow for a beginner: draw weight and style?

Arto wrote:

Geoarcher suggested koreanarmory.com. Interesting place I had not noticed at all before your reply, but strange site - I can't find the prices anywhere? Or can't I just navigate there?


You'll have to get a quote from them.  The bow set I linked in the thread is about 200 USD.

Thumbs up

  • Registered: 2017-03-11
  • Posts: 6
  • User Karma: 1

Re: Bow for a beginner: draw weight and style?

My arrows are from about the center of the neck to the base joint of my middle finger. A little less if I stretch out a lot.
I think a 47" light bow should be good with up to 7 chi (81.81cm =   32.21") arrows (nock groove to tip of point) I tried one with such arrows once, I think it was a songmugung dangung. They only recommend up to 6 chi arrows... so it might break  tongue

Thumbs up

18 Reply by Pedro C (edited by Pedro C 2017-03-15 03:09:57)

  • From: SoCal
  • Registered: 2015-08-12
  • Posts: 319
  • User Karma: 15

Re: Bow for a beginner: draw weight and style?

And yes, total arrow length from center of throat to base joint of middle finger is the approximate minimum I'd recommend for Korean style.

I also found this, from the other thread. With this, I get around 33". (btw, I'm around 6'1" or 6'2".) This puts me at 7.5chi to 8 chi arrows.

https://i.imgur.com/WzXJljr.jpg

Pedro C's Website

Thumbs up