Re: Kaya KTB Bow First Look...

The grip on one I just received for a customer is hard foam rubber; I'm not sure if that is a permanent change or what...  In any case, I'm wrapping it with a black leather strip and will use rubber cement to adhere it.

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Re: Kaya KTB Bow First Look...

Hi Thomas if mine comes like that you don't have to do a thing, I will handle the grip part... I hope it comes with something nice on mine though... If not I can wrap it..

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Re: Kaya KTB Bow First Look...

No problem with the Hwarang bows--they have a beautiful leather wrap done by the bowyer (I'm basing the one I'm doing on this Kaya on it).

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Re: Kaya KTB Bow First Look...

What do you folks suggest for replacing the leather arrow pass?  Mine is already close to wearing out.  The arrows shaft or fletching really tear up the leather.

Has anyone thought about replacing the fashion-bag-like bow fabric?  For those who would like to hunt with the KTB, what could we use as camo fabric?

@Trident, I can't wait for the photos of the stitched up new leather grip.

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30 (edited by WarBow 2011-09-20 05:15:41)

Re: Kaya KTB Bow First Look...

Trident,

We are in serious trouble, as in serious addiction!  I too have too many Korean and Hungarian bows to count.

Trident wrote:
bluelake wrote:

Great!

Thanks thomas! Now I'm gonna have to get a bow rack made for my growing collection... What started out as one compound bow grew to 2 compound bows over the summer, and recently 2 Korean bows with 2 more Korean bows on the way and growing... I'm sick!

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Re: Kaya KTB Bow First Look...

WarBow wrote:

What do you folks suggest for replacing the leather arrow pass?  Mine is already close to wearing out.  The arrows shaft or fletching really tear up the leather.

Has anyone thought about replacing the fashion-bag-like bow fabric?  For those who would like to hunt with the KTB, what could we use as camo fabric?

@Trident, I can't wait for the photos of the stitched up new leather grip.

While at the ATA trade show in Indianapolis with Kaya/Greatree this past January, Freddie Won and I stopped by a booth that had camo bow backing--Freddie took a sample to consider, as I suggested it would make a good option for customers.

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Re: Kaya KTB Bow First Look...

Warbow-

I picked up a buffalo horn guitar pick, and was going to trim it into a size that fits the arrow pass with my dremel to see how it would fit.. I would glue it with barge cement and see how it does. The decorative string that is wrapped around the limbs is easy to do over if need be. I used to do guide wraps on the fishing rods I made, and its basically the same, easy to finish off the ends, anyone could do it. Maybe change the colors if I wanted to also... One of the things I'm working on customizing.

And I would have to shoot  it and see if that actually created any "tuning", as I know that the string silencers have helped the Khan become even more quiet and smoother than it was before, which was great.

Also the bow silencers are rubber, I think I could probably wrap that with thin leather also and glue it back on, but probably best not to touch that yet, as I have to study the hwarang to see how its done if its easy, I'll try it. I know I just put nail glue on it to secure it before.

I ordered long thin strips of stingray to possibly inlay on the inside of the limbs, where its black. Also maybe try it on the arrow pass, and see how it holds up as it is a very tough material from my experience... They all come from thailand now. I know it was also used in korean weaponry and decoration in the past, so I'm staying traditional.

The outside of the limbs I was picturing and you don't have to agree with me on this, but a hair on calf hide strips covering the outside of the limbs in jet black... And then trim lace holes on the sides and lace it up with black or red sinew to wrap the limbs, this can be removed of course. Which would then be covered up by stingray inlays on the back side. Yeah....

Its my vision of a custom bow that I would have made if I was a hwarang or a korean warrior with my personal tastes back in history... Thats the fun of it for me, personalization and customization is something that I enjoy owning and using in life to the fullest

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Re: Kaya KTB Bow First Look...

Okay Ladies and Gentlemen... Here are the pics please give me your comments and thoughts on my progress so far....

Kaya Bow, black leather grip after drying 24 hours outside grip. You can see the line where it joins for placement, but it is barely noticeable when looking at it. The original grip also had it join on this side, but the maker overlays the pattern so its difficult to distinguish, does a good job on it. Whats underneath is the black foam grip, which was in previous pictures. You can also see the arrow pass leather also is finished in this way.
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/hwarang1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_8243.jpg

Inside Grip, clean. Notice the string, switched it to the white one for a few days
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/hwarang1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_2690.jpg

Here is the paracord wrapped over the leather as it dried to keep pressure on the leather to the grip, and the 2 ends together at the seam. I wrapped it tightly, and I think it helped with the proper adhesion no bubbles, and beautiful placement.There was just enough glue on the other side the back of the leather was smoothed over with the plastic knive evenly. Once I removed the wrap, it was stationary, rock solid stationary. This can be peeled off if need be and replaced or whatever. No permanence to this mod. If you have a slight crease, rub some lotion on it, and keep rubbing the spot, the glue may still move around a tiny bit to get out any imperfections you find when you remove the cord.
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/hwarang1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_0367.jpg

Looks more like a big boys bow already.. Classy.
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/hwarang1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_2802.jpg

This is the Kaya Khan. About to pull the wrap off. This is just my technique, I have never done this before, or even worked with leather or on my bows. I just felt that it would make it better, the ideas just come to me. It feels refreshing to be able to do this. I But I was very happy with the way its turning out so far..
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/hwarang1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_8117-1.jpg

I put one of those rubber tubes used to cover recurve and long bows I got from 3riversarchery, the shur grip. You cut the length to fit and roll over the handle. The original suede and laces are still under there. It gave me a very nice grip on the bow, an improvement for my big hands. And I glued the leather and wrapped around that. So its really removeable. This one I put the seam on the outside, because of the contour of the grip. It was a flat surface to close the seam on the outside grip, the inside has a contour that I didnt think would be good to put the seam there.
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/hwarang1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_9010.jpg

Outside of grip, the seam is very slight. That I might try to cover with a thin strip of stingray for added grip and to cover the seam, but it doesnt need it... Feels rock solid as it is.
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/hwarang1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_9340.jpg

Ready for action baby! I think this bow is perfect now! For now..Ha! Oh man the grip feels awesome with the 3 finger draw... Makes the draw feel like a little less weight 55#  as it spreads the pressure on my left hand when drawing it back because the grip fills my hand much better and I'm drawing at a slight cant with this bow since its meant for 3 finger draw.
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/hwarang1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_6291.jpg

My 2 (for now) Korean Brothers From Another Mother...
Note the quiver. Its an old Neet classic quiver that most of you have seen or used, It was the first quiver my father got me. Its at least 15 years old. I had some material left over so I decided my bows needed their company to dress accordingly to the occasion.
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/hwarang1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_7070.jpg

You can see I wrapped it around the seam, marked it with one of my kids colored pencil to fit, tried fitting a bunch of times to make sure I had it right, fitting is everything, if you want it to look good. Because once that glue is on, theres no turning back for that piece of trim. I actually miscalculated the length, but had enough red leather to cover it on the trim and it actually worked out! I stuffed the quiver with newspapers to make it rock hard and give it a shape. Otherwise, these quivers are so soft you will have a hard time wrapping it and fitting it. Once it hardens it actually makes the quiver stiffer which was a bonus. I plan on lining the top of the quiver with Black rabbit fur trim on the outside and inside to quiet it a bit. And will finish it off with a stingray butt cap if I have the right size material left over. I turned a tired old quiver, into the new girl on the block! Now, with the arrows... I think I'm good to go. When the bamboo arrows come in, I will attempt make those and show you guys how it goes... stay tuned.. give us your opinions and ideas. Be brutal, Be honest. Just say something guys. I want to know that I'm not the only person who's wondering the possibilities here. Straight Mind. Straight Body. (Learned that from thomas).
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/hwarang1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_8569.jpg
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/hwarang1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_0863.jpg
TRIDENT

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Re: Kaya KTB Bow First Look...

Oops yes I got the two mixed up this is a thread about the Kaya KTB... Thomas, I guess I can't stop thinking about the Hwarang I have on order with you sir, Ha..

bluelake wrote:

No problem with the Hwarang bows--they have a beautiful leather wrap done by the bowyer (I'm basing the one I'm doing on this Kaya on it).

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Re: Kaya KTB Bow First Look...

Were going to have to make a play date and show off our babies soon!..

WarBow wrote:

Trident,

We are in serious trouble, as in serious addiction!  I too have too many Korean and Hungarian bows to count.

Trident wrote:
bluelake wrote:

Great!

Thanks thomas! Now I'm gonna have to get a bow rack made for my growing collection... What started out as one compound bow grew to 2 compound bows over the summer, and recently 2 Korean bows with 2 more Korean bows on the way and growing... I'm sick!

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36

Re: Kaya KTB Bow First Look...

Trident-BRAVO!!!  The grip really sets the bow off, nice job.

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Re: Kaya KTB Bow First Look...

Thank you JBL, I got in the stingray so I'm trying to figure out if it will stick to the inside of the bow limb and flex with it or how to inlay it in...  I saw some ancient mongolian metal bows, that were covered with fur, it was interesting... That these ancient peoples used iron to make bows, I didn't know that.

And those bows made of iron were covered in fur, like some of the plains indians bows.
So I'm going to assume that ancient korean bows were covered in fur and decorative materials and customized as well. There are very few bows actually that survived due to age and that fact that they were made of natural materials.

Korean archery, I read in thomas's book had standardized the bow in modern times but it seems the bows were made to fit the archer in past history. Same as korean swords, they were also made in many different sizes to suit the user. That is why you won't see a standard version of a korean sword, like chinese and japanese swords, which all look the same. I find that very interesting...

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38

Re: Kaya KTB Bow First Look...

Trident what is your source for an "iron" bow?  I have done a lot of study of the Asian recurves and have never come across a source that mentions a bow made of iron.  It may have been ceremonial like a "Medicine" bow of the Native Americans but iron would never have had the elasticity to make a proper bow.  As far as fur on the bow again I have never read or heard of that on a Mongolian bow.  That is not to say either is false but I have a feeling it may be one of those tourist trap things.

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Re: Kaya KTB Bow First Look...

I could be wrong but I swear I read about it somewhere... Could it have been one of those fugazi souvenir type ones? Maybe.... I could be wrong as to authenticity of such a bows existence in actual history but I'm pretty sure I saw an iron bow that was wrapped in fur somewhere... Can't place it though...

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Re: Kaya KTB Bow First Look...

There were metal bows in many cultures, including Korea.  They were called "iron bows" (철궁/cheolgung), but were actually bronze.

http://museum.ganghwa.go.kr/upfiles/relic_data/relic_relic_20110701214155.jpg

http://www.arrow.or.kr/old/image/iron.jpeg

I have a steel bow, which was made in India (it was a gift from a friend); it is a take-down and the limbs screw in at the handle; however, I don't have a picture of it.  However, here is a similar bow:http://ancient-arms.tradenote.net/images/users/000/342/883/products_images/403005.jpg

Here is a web article on steel bows from India: http://margo.student.utwente.nl/sagi/ar … teel2.html

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41

Re: Kaya KTB Bow First Look...

Interesting I know that in the Grayson collection there was also a "steel" bow.  I forgot about it when I posted my earlier question.  I did see on the auction site some very cheap looking "bow" that was made of steel but nothing like you posted or the link.  Great stuff.

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Re: Kaya KTB Bow First Look...

I doubt that historical metals bows were of much use and were probably more of a status symbol than anything else, but that's just my guess.  It seems like they would develop string follow quite easily and wouldn't be of a sufficient draw weight to be practical.

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Re: Kaya KTB Bow First Look...

Aha! I was right.... I thought I saw that somewhere.... Yes iron bows.... I've read stories about them before, like they were mythical weapons for their time.

I have seen the mongolian bows, and they are UGLY.... just my opinion! And look heavier at the limb tips, though I've never handled one. They decorate their bows with patterns and designs drawn on them. And it seems they use birch for wood arrows. They also use the sinew and animal horn, although it seems it wasn't water buffalo specific, like mountain goat, and whatever horn they could get their hands on that could be cut to strips, and they use a lot of wood, no mention of bamboo from the ones I've seen.

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Re: Kaya KTB Bow First Look...

Heres an update on my project, I have been planning this for a few weeks now but have been so busy to sit down and put this together. I have been planning on inlaying the belly of the KTB with stingray, as the flat black was just too boring for me. The belly on my Hwarang bow is nice and plump, it gives it a very nice shape, whereas on the KTB it is just flat and black.

I removed the wrapping on the ends of the siyahs and the grips
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/hwarang1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_9907-1.jpg

Wrapped red deer leather strand over the existing black grip, gives it some more thickness and a very soft feel. I like it!
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/hwarang1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_5817.jpg

Stingray Piece
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/hwarang1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_7452.jpg
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/hwarang1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_0574.jpg

I cut the spine out from the middle, it is the approximate thickness of the Kaya KTB belly
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/hwarang1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_2669.jpg

Once I cut the strip for the spine, I rolled it up as tight as I could to soften it, since the bow will flex... I was kind of concerned about fitment, but as long as you cut it to fit from the grip to the string silencer end to end in the unstrung position, you are good to go. I put barge cement on the stingray piece and carefully lined it up with the belly trying to cover as much of the black as I could, which I did most of it, and it looks pretty good! Might have been better if I had something to cut the stingray in straight pieces, but a scissor is all I had, and stingray is pretty tough stuff to cut through...

Once glued into place, I wrapped it with paracord to push it against the belly for better adhesion which always works for me
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/hwarang1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_7291.jpg

I let it try for 4 hours in this position, then I strung the bow and checked the fitment of the stingray which was straight. And left it strung for another 2-3 hours so that it would stick better in that position. And after that, I unstrung it and left it overnight...
To be continued....

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Re: Kaya KTB Bow First Look...

Looking good!

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Re: Kaya KTB Bow First Look...

It looks nice.
Will it affect performance?

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Re: Kaya KTB Bow First Look...

Bjarup, I don't think it will at all. The stingray is very flexible, as I was able to roll that strip up into a tight roll and it was the spine! Also the barge cement is flexible and very strong it seems, there is not noticeable difference in the draw. I have not had a chance to chrony it before putting this on, but will do once I finish. Now looking at the belly it looks bad ass!!!! I've had knife sheaths custom made for me that were covered in stingray and I've also seen bows online covered in snakeskin that didn't look as good... This gives it a really rich look!

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Re: Kaya KTB Bow First Look...

Sounds good.

I am really looking forward to those chrony results.

And I can't wait to pick up my Khan today or tomorrow, according to UPS.

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Re: Kaya KTB Bow First Look...

Very good looking.

Though i like simple, so my KTB will stay black...  wink

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Okay folks! Here is the grand finale..... I finally finished it today, and I am beyond happy with the results and I think anybody can do it. If they have an idea, and can put the thought into it! Now, I have done this the way I envisioned it, the way I would have done it for myself if I was a "posu nim", maybe thomas can explain better, but that is a korean mountain man, who hunted with Guns and Bows. A weapons and survival specialist, in olden times, that is how I know the meaning of the word.

Stingray spine on the belly
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/hwarang1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_4460.jpg
It really gives depth and volume to the belly
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/hwarang1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_2299.jpg
Process of sewing on the hair on cow hide with artificial red sinew. The piece must taper from the grip to the tip of the limbs. I measured it out and cut. Then used a leather hole puncher to punch holes 1 inch apart on the sides, about 1/8-1/4" from the ends. I never used one before, but it worked out pretty good... Measurements I took: 22 1/2 long, taper from 2 3/4 inch to 2 inch end to end so it looks like a triangle kind of. You have to cut according to how the hair is facing on the hide, you want the hair to face down to stay flat. This is important. I checked fitment a bunch of times, and I was spot on. On the top limb piece, you have to cut an inch shorter than that even, to make room for the arrow pass.
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/hwarang1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1313.jpg
Top of limb with calf hair sewn on See the tips!
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/hwarang1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_5990.jpg
Bottom of limb- See I made it an inch shorter and used a 1" piece of white calf hair to make it pop at  boththe ends. Also figured this small piece can get replaced if need be more easily.
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/hwarang1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_0403.jpg
String Bridge "BIKINI's" I made from stingray. My Kaya KTB has the rubber string bridge which works well, but in order for me to wrap in leather I would have to remove it, and its stuck on pretty good so I didn't want to mess with it. Instead, I added the string bridge bikini's (my name for it) that go right in the groove, and the string goes over it. A nice touch.
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/hwarang1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1935.jpg
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/hwarang1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_7679.jpg
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/hwarang1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_9035.jpg
I used a Grade AAA quality skin for the arrow pass, it is so beautiful... really try to get the better quality pieces for your project, it makes a difference. It was 1" high, and I measured around for fitment. The bottom I used the "star" from the other skin, and used it under the grip, it looks like a white EYE watching over my back as I shoot, LOL.... Looks and feels amazing...
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/hwarang1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_4470.jpg
Other side, notice the clean seams.. Barge cement does wonders.
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/hwarang1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_7857.jpg
Small stingray skin used for arrow pass:
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/hwarang1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_5304.jpg
My new View when I shoot... I love this thing!!!
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/hwarang1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_5030.jpg
The pictures from my iphone dont do this bow justice!!!
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/hwarang1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_5404.jpg
Hope you guys enjoyed the show.. I am very very happy and proud with the way it came out! This bow was my "ugly" bow out of the group that I planned to beat on, now its one of the prettiest girls on my block. First time I have ever done anything like this, I had a blast, and hope you guys come up with your own version and show us all..
Note the white tips on the ends..
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/hwarang1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_9035.jpg

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