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felix8 wrote:Hello folks,
My Black Shadow was stolen recently and I'm shopping for a replacement. Does anyone here have any experience with the Farmington Archery Assassin?
https://farmingtonarchery.com/index.php … uct_id=225
I haven't been able to find much info about Farmington Archery or this bow. It's supposedly a 53" carbon laminate. There's an unboxing vid @yt but it doesn't go much further than that. Any info would be appreciated, thanks.
-felix
To me, it looks quite similar to this bow:
https://www.bogentandler.at/en/white-fe … l-bow-7009
Not much online info to find about that bow and the company either.
I suppose it is just a brand for the European market, which might be true for Farmington either.
I'm having such a bow (just with fabric-covered limbs), and they are ok.
Good performance and robust, but small handle and relatively hard draw.
I find that 60lbs implausible, too.
Except he really pulls against the "wall", where nothing bends anymore.
JGH wrote:As far as I understand it the string is not in the middle, but a bit on the right side for RH bows....
Which reminds me of a video from Ryan Gill, which I saw some while ago. Perhaps you know his YT channel.
He mentioned that when making primitive bows, he tries to use a twistedness of the stave to his advantage.
Putting the arrow rest position on the inward bent side reduces archer's paradox, and makes spine considerations less critical.
Although, with differently tillered limbs (upper & lower, to account for the handle), you have a non-ambidextrous bow again.
JGH wrote:With the 42 lbs otf of the WF this just seems not to happen automatically. Need to work on this.
There is a difference between "can shoot" and "can shoot properly".
For me, that limit is 35..40lbs, depending on general form. Less after some lazy weeks.
If you don't really reach full draw, and can't hold it for several seconds, it is probably too much for you. Continue to shoot that way likely introduces bad habits (avoidance technique). That's why I went down to 25lbs after seriously starting with thumb archery. Only then results really improved.
JGH wrote: Also the HMG is sold as RH and LH in Korea, they seem to be tillered off center. Only the "export" bows are offered ambidex. Would love to be able to shoot such a bow with the proper tuned arrows one day. Maybe that is the reason why they only need a little bit of torque...?
Interesting to hear. There is very little presence of Koreans here in Austria, even less of traditional Korean archery. So, I need to rely on second-hand information in this regard.
But I remember some of the Freddie Archery KTA bows shipped with a rubber arrow shelf - which was glued on either left or right.
But I remember
JGH wrote: I can also shoot GT warrior 400 spine, but need a lot of torque.
I suspect this is a form issue, with insufficient follow-through. This was my problem for months as well.
If you do not keep up the back tension throughout the shot, the bowhand comes inward at the release. I tried to counter this issue with torque as well.
Correcting this problem - existing with other styles I practice - removed the need for explicit torque.
As said, a mentor or trainer would be helpful.
JGH wrote:Measured draw weight at full draw this weekend:: 40lbs Kaya at 31.5"=60 lbs, shoots like a rocket, 30 lbs WF forever carbon at 33 inches:42lbs.
That seems a bit much.
Draw weights of KTBs are specified for 31", so 20lbs for a half inch seem ... a lot.
JGH wrote:WF draws very smooth all the way to 33 or 34".
My 30lbs WF Carbon Forever (53") draws much stiffer then the 30lbs Kaya KTB, and even the 35lbs Black Cat.
My WF bows are more then 3 years old, though. Maybe they had been modified in the meantime.
JGH wrote:The new 30lbs bow tends to shoot quite far to the right with 600 spine arrows, tried 1100 spine and these go far left.
Spine numbers of 1100 are quite high, better be careful. Especially at full length.
Not that I'm a magnificent archer, but spine has not much effect on my shooting. I shoot arrows between 400 and 800, on bows between 25 and 40lbs.
One difference is arrow weight, of course. That makes a visible difference at the max. IFAA range (60yds).
And bad shooting. "Bad form" usually means, I collapse on the shot (relaxing back tension during release).
JGH wrote:Armin Hirmer has tested the Daylite Monarq, which looks identical to the WF Forever Carbon But I don't know if it has the HM Carbon Layer.
I noticed this as well. Perhaps they produce the WF bows for the European/Western market, with WF being just a brand name. This not uncommon in the archery industry.
The WF bows feel harder to draw than the Kaya or Freddie bows of the same draw weight, I think.
strawanski wrote:Is your Nomad 52"? How long does it draw smoothly?
No, "only" 48". That is a Kaya KTB, draw length up to 32".
But my draw is only about 29 ... 29,5".
I have a 40lbs Nomad which is 53" long, and feels easier at full draw than the black cat.
If you have a chance, try it at a dealer.
strawanski wrote:Is there a big difference between Kaya KTB and Nomad Ktb in shooting? The nomad looks like it has more narrow limbs than the Kaya.
I don't notice a big difference - except for the stacking, because my Black Cat is shorter (46").
strawanski wrote:Can anyone tell me about the max safe draw length of a Kaya KTB/ Black Cat. I can not find much information about it.
Kaya seems not to bother specifying maximal draw length.
Here in Europe, the bow is available in 46", 48", 50" and 52".
Freddie Archery OTOH specifies the following for it's KTB Kindom, which you can take as guidelines:
Max Draw Length : 44"- 30.42"(77.2cm), 48"- 31.62"(80.3cm), 53"- 33.40"(84.8cm)
In your case, I would definitely go for the longest (52") variant.
I tend to agree to geoarcher.
However, I would suggest to look for a mentor or teacher. KTA is quite different than the ubiquitous mediterranean/olympic style. Perhaps you have such a club near you.
The internet/Youtube is a quite incomplete reference ...
Had a "materials day" in my club last weekend, and speed-tested a few of my Korean bows.
Those were a Kaya KTB with 30lbs, a Nomad with 40lbs and a Windfighter with 50lbs. Draw weight at 31" as usual.
Shooting the same light 240 grain carbon arrow with each bow, I got the following max. speeds:
Kaya KTB : 195 fps
Nomad : 215 fps
Windfighter : 235 fps
The averages were about 5 fps lower.
Worth noting that the draw weights are the nominal one's at 31". With my draw of 29,5", I get about 42 lbs with the Windfighter, for example.
In contrast to Kaya and Freddie archery bows, the White Feather one's are labeled in English (not Korean).
That suggests White Feather might just be a brand name, with contract manufacturing for the Western (European/American) market.
Many Chinese/Tainwanese archery companies (bows and crossbows) do the same. They often do contract manufacturing for Western companies as well. E.g. most crossbows below the 1000$/€ mark are actually made in Taiwan.
For archers in the US, river cane might be a good alternative.
It is not growing here in Europe.
Higher preload, and higher power at less mass weight.
Traditional turkish/ottoman bows are very similar in this regard.
oni wrote:I've had success with major delaminations using G/Flex 650 Toughened Epoxy. It's expensive but my repairs are still holding after hundreds of shots. It's like alien technology 
I will try. Albeit it's not quite a delamination (larger surface), more a cone-shaped hole, about 1/4 inch deep.
And brand names are different here. But normally, I use an epoxy with higher strength and longer curing times. The same one I use for the tapered tips on bamboo arrows.
Definitely.
Albeit it seems due to the technique, the arrow almost alway jumps out above, to hit the bow. I don't want to take chances, though.
The replacement bow has already arrived.
The damaged bow still seemed to shoot quite nice. I think about fixing the hole with epoxy and giving it a try.
I did some further test shooting during my holidays, and managed to bust my Nomad KTB in the process.
Just as Bluelake described in another thread (I think), the arrow slipped off the tongah rail on the upside, and hit the upper limb about two inches above the handle.
I can still feel my blood freeze when imagining it had slipped below. And 150 bucks squandered.
Anyway, I will put such experiments on hold, and not risking my tournament bows, and my physical integrity, of course.
BTW, I picked up some glassfiber staves from my longterm storage facility (parent's house).
Perhaps I make them into a crossbow during winter, time to re-use the "Pyeonjeon" arrows...
I know not all these tubes are the same & some may be more open but right at the beginning, when Bede inserts the arrow, he turns the device upside down & shows that the arrow can't fall out hence my assumption that when loaded the tip is partially encased already.
Can tell only from my understanding and little experience:
When you hold the arrow in with the index finger (as usually), the bow string rests on the rim, while the tip rests on the bottom of the rail (tong-ah). Thus, there is a slight "misalignment" between the force vector (the path the string moves, along the rim) and the axis of the arrow, slightly pointing inward, towards the bow. This small misalignment keeps the arrow in (pusing it in, towards the bottom of the rail) while the string pushes forward.
In mathematical therms F * sin(alpha)", where F is the force applied by the string, and alpha the deviation angle.
Good for you working it out. I still haven't the nerve to try one of these things
I used a low poundage bow for sure.
And my "family planning period" is over anyway ... 
What I got from Bede's video was that when the arrow is installed it can't fall out so I guess it is somewhat enclosed up to half way down rather than equally open all the way along.
The audio of the linke video was a bit hard to understand. But (as I assumed myself) if the tip rests down on the rail, the string is pushing it slightly inward when moving forward, keeping it from falling out.
I had a quite clear mental image of what could happen if I shot with the tip pointing out. Therefore all the fuss.
Well, almost there - with the third iteration.
The second one was made from a much larger diameter bamboo, almost suitable for shooting three arrows at once ...
While trying this version, I realized two other problems with my construction.
First, the holding string was fixed too far back, making it difficult to keep it on the right side of the string while loading.
Second, the taper at the rear section was much too long, almost one quarter of the total length. The caused the arrow nock to be pressed down further against it, and lifted the tip up.
The third version has this issues resolved, with only slightly greater width as the first one.
I did some test shots in the garage, and it worked fine. Just need to shorten it for my draw length, and smooth it's surface properly.
Have you tried ATARN or even the source I provided?
I need to check how far I come without a login. Nothing will convince me to create one for fakebook.
Checked the classic atarn side, but didn't find specific information. Some stuff remained undone the last weeks, because of a relocation.
BTW, the rear section of my tong-ah, where the arrow rests, is 10mm wide (0,39"), the arrows are 5/16" (8mm).
Nope doesn't work for me m8.
Don't know ... I checked again, from another PC, and I still can see the picture. For sure I also checked immediatey after posting.
Anyway, I'm convinced mine is too narrow. There are just a few millimeter clearance, relative to the arrow diameter, so the fletching seems to work as "pivot point", because it is wider.
I will report back when my updated/improved device is ready.
Sanding the quill of the fletchings down didn't do it either.
Doing a quick search, I found this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESoEgAfexog
Compared to this guy's tong-ah, my is much narrower, less than one and a half arrow diameter. His is about 3 times the arrow diameter, I guess.
I think I got to find me another (and thicker) bamboo stick. What's your opinion on this ?
An image of mine, with an arrow. Hope I got the image upload right this time ...
http://www.koreanarchery.org/punbb/misc … r=1805t886
>>Now<< I've seen it.
Just a confirmation of what I supposed to think.
My arrows mostly not having the tip down inside the rail. And I refrain from shooting in this case.
Now that my relocation is mostly finished, I hope to find the time to modify the arrows, i.e. remove the fletching and sand the quill down.
Other projects had precedence, like finishing a batch of bamboo arrows ...
The improved arrows are in the works, I removed the windings on the front of the fletching, and thicken the diameter near the nock.
Still not enough.
I checked them, by laying it on the tong-ah rail, and slightly pressed at the nock area. The arrows still not lay flat, because of the fat quill of the feathers. Think I try at least one arrow, remove the fletching, and sand the quill down to 1..2 tenth of an inch.
These arrows date back to a time when a naive me still believed that one can buy quality wood arrows for cheap in online archery shops ...
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