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ragnar wrote:Definitely.
Albeit it seems due to the technique, the arrow almost alway jumps out above, to hit the bow. I don't want to take chances, though.
The replacement bow has already arrived.
The damaged bow still seemed to shoot quite nice. I think about fixing the hole with epoxy and giving it a try.
I've had success with major delaminations using G/Flex 650 Toughened Epoxy. It's expensive but my repairs are still holding after hundreds of shots. It's like alien technology 
ragnar wrote:I did some further test shooting during my holidays, and managed to bust my Nomad KTB in the process.
Just as Bluelake described in another thread (I think), the arrow slipped off the tongah rail on the upside, and hit the upper limb about two inches above the handle.
I can still feel my blood freeze when imagining it had slipped below. And 150 bucks squandered.
Anyway, I will put such experiments on hold, and not risking my tournament bows, and my physical integrity, of course.
BTW, I picked up some glassfiber staves from my longterm storage facility (parent's house).
Perhaps I make them into a crossbow during winter, time to re-use the "Pyeonjeon" arrows...
That was bad luck. Lucky no injury 
ragnar wrote:Good for you working it out. I still haven't the nerve to try one of these things
I used a low poundage bow for sure.
And my "family planning period" is over anyway ... 
What I got from Bede's video was that when the arrow is installed it can't fall out so I guess it is somewhat enclosed up to half way down rather than equally open all the way along.
The audio of the linke video was a bit hard to understand. But (as I assumed myself) if the tip rests down on the rail, the string is pushing it slightly inward when moving forward, keeping it from falling out.
I had a quite clear mental image of what could happen if I shot with the tip pointing out. Therefore all the fuss.
Do you play the piano ? 
I know not all these tubes are the same & some may be more open but right at the beginning, when Bede inserts the arrow, he turns the device upside down & shows that the arrow can't fall out hence my assumption that when loaded the tip is partially encased already. Of course the rest of the geometry must be correct but that aspect stood out for me.
What I got from Bede's video was that when the arrow is installed it can't fall out so I guess it is somewhat enclosed up to half way down rather than equally open all the way along.
Good for you working it out. I still haven't the nerve to try one of these things 
ragnar wrote:The improved arrows are in the works, I removed the windings on the front of the fletching, and thicken the diameter near the nock.
Still not enough.
I checked them, by laying it on the tong-ah rail, and slightly pressed at the nock area. The arrows still not lay flat, because of the fat quill of the feathers. Think I try at least one arrow, remove the fletching, and sand the quill down to 1..2 tenth of an inch.
These arrows date back to a time when a naive me still believed that one can buy quality wood arrows for cheap in online archery shops ...
Take a look at Bede Dwyer's video below. Might be helpful if you haven't already seen it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-d5CyOi58U
ragnar wrote:After this thread, and the wonderful weather here at the weekend, I felt the urge to try my tong-ah as well.
Which didn't work out so well, I just managed one shot.
Whith the other tries, the arrow tip was sticking out, and I couln't manage to keep it in the 'rail'. That didn't feel safe to me, and stopped.
Which makes me believe my arrows are not appropriate. The have a flat nock (same diameter as the shaft) quite thick winding at the start of the fletching - which is only appropriate for full length arrows.
Not sure if I rework them, or make new one's. From the link to Freddy's shop, it looks like the nock region is slightly thicker, and the fletchings have no windings. This way, the arrows should be flush when pressed slightly with the index finger against the nock region.
My single shot was actually not so bad, I hit the 10 ring of a 1,2m FITA target face at 10m (11yds).
That's a good start at least 
& I salute your bravery
geoarcher wrote:Interesting, so I have you tried it before?
No, that's why I said "may" have a softer draw. Call it an educated guess. Extrapolating from my grozer bio composite which has horn plate on the belly. It has a "softer" draw than my other short turkish style bow which is a regular laminate.
ShinLa wrote:Could anyone tell me what the brace height of a 50" Kaya KTB should be? It's a second hand bow with no documentation and I wanted to be sure before I started shooting. (It's finally warming up here in NH.)
5.5" - 6"
The $845 one may draw "softer" but the $500 one is just as attractive from an authentic point of view.
I've just bought a Hwarang & have too many bows to consider more purchases 
morton509 wrote:Bluelake. I love my Hwarang and appreciate the fast and helpful service you provide. Its the trust factor that I feel you provide. Especially when purchasing a bow for the first time. Its basically a sure thing. You never really know what your gonna get from ebay. And your a shooter and not just a seller, thats important to me. The Hwarang is totally worth it.
That sums up my experience 100%.
I did initially purchase an eBay YMG #60. It was good for 15 months then snappo ! the belly broke clean in two ( pic below).
I sent it back for a report & possible repair but the maker said it was beyond fixing.
Seller offered to resell me one at a reduced cost but I didn't have confidence to take that offer.
A few emails to Bluelake, aka Thomas & I was assured he had seen very few breakages in all the years he provided these bows. I had a new Hwarang on the way in quick time.
Both bows are within 3 lbs draw weight but the Hwarang at 63# feels very different. It doesn't stack but seems to come into it's power sooner.
Also my hunting weight arrows now seem too soft in the spine, which is fine as I'll just experiment with some lighter heads till I find the sweet spot.
I'm really enjoying the new bow & as was said above, "The Hwarang is totally worth it ".
Sorry to necropost but I've got a Kaya 50# & used it on and off for at least the last 10 years. Dry fired 2x by accident . Never even looked like breaking. Maybe a good vintage
Flight shooting sounds like a lot of fun. I'd like to try it one day with a siper & my Turkish bows.
Wow ! 30grains is light. I always find tuning tedious unless bare shaft flight is good.
Yes that video is not terribly scientific but it does show that an optimised arrow may be heavier than expected.
Happy tuning
Nice review Ragnar.
One way around the wide inserts & lack of robustness would be to add a small aluminium footing behind them. Are you familiar with the concept?
Of course this would add a little more FOC, maybe exacerbating the fishtailing. Sounds like they may be a little soft in the spine. Can you try a lighter point ? You can maybe stabilise the flight with taller/longer fletching but you will get more drag.
Old but fun video on FOC below
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkLoD87wQiw
ragnar wrote:Last weekend the shaft I ordered for testing arrived finally.
This were six with a .600 spine, and six with a .400 spine, all of said brand.
I prepared three of each for flight shooting tests, with short, clipped fletchings, the standard insert, and 30gn points, and full length of 33".
The weights are 240gn for the .600, and 300gn for the .400 arrows.
Might be able to test them over the Christmas holydays.
Have fun testing. I just got some new shafts for my 60# bows also. So far so good.
CTR wrote:I can't speak to your experiences, all I can say is I'm not having an issue. We're far from unique in using ray skin on bows, several historical designs have it. Generally commercial ray skin leather has been polished quite smooth, to the point where it wouldn't be a very effective abrasive, at least in my experience.
I'll play around with it some more. From your pics yours looks much smoother than what I used .
Traditionally, stingray hide is used as sandpaper. You're not concerned about abrasion on your arrows or that nice thread wrapping ?
I ask because I tried polished rayskin once & found it too aggressive in the long run.
Maybe I should have sanded it down further than the supplier did ?
Pedro C wrote:The Guru is 44", so... 44/31~=1.42.
44"/x = 1.55 => x = 28.38"
I just think the limbs will be past parallel. It'll be interesting either way. I doubt that it'd break, since it's pretty light..
Just received this morning. The pamphlet says 30.42" Max,. Works for me & my short left arm.
Thanx ! Lottsa good pics in the link.
Pedro C wrote:yeah, i dont know how they can do a low wrist comfortably with those
Looks like a pretty straight wrist in the pics of that thread. Something like shooting a Turkish bow maybe.
Curious about the pistol grip shape on most Korean bows. Is that a modern design ?
Some bows I've seen have somewhat slimmer, oval shape. eg : http://www.koreanarchery.org/punbb/viewtopic.php?id=619
ragnar wrote:Which I assume has a lot to do with the shape of the grip.
I had been shooting about 90 minutes yesterday with my Windfighter, and he hit me only 3 or 4 times.
Had been a bit sloppy then...
Not really the grip's shape.. Form is still a conscious effort, for me & sometimes it's not all there.
Pedro C wrote:Sometimes I "randomly" start getting hit in the bow arm... then it stops... .
For me that's when my elbow is pointing at the ground rather than to the side.
Pedro C wrote:But that bow is so short..? probably max d/l 29"?
I dunno. Hopefully 29# @ 31" means it can be drawn to 31"
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