Topic: Draw Length and Anchor

Throught my research on the web, both video, historical photos, and a wide variety of KTA's, it is becoming apparent that not all are pulling there bow to the same location. And it also seems that anchor is often times sporadic even while shooting in the same spot and at the same target.

The question is, how is draw length determined from one archer to the other?

I currently am using 32.5 inch carbons, and am pulling those back far enough for the connection of the field point and arrow comes together.  Now generally using a western style draw, I draw the bow back 28inches.

Is this far enough? The Korean bow needs to be drawn to full capacity, is this happening at 32 inches?

Thank you for any input.

Joseph

Thumbs up

Re: Draw Length and Anchor

Joseph,

Once one's approximate draw length is figured out (measuring from the end of the outstretched bow arm back to the draw arm by one's shoulder), you can figure out which arrow is needed.  Korean arrows are measured in "chi" (寸--3.03cm), which is 1/10 of a "cheok" (尺--30.3cm).  Korean fletchers can usually tell right away what length arrow an archer needs.

In any case, once you have the right length arrows, the draw will be such that you will touch the back of the point with your thumb; it is a very consistent anchor point.


Thomas

Thumbs up

Re: Draw Length and Anchor

I had draw lenght about 27", even with thumbring.

Now i have been practising Korean style, and with my 80#@30" hungarian bow i now draw that 30".  big_smile

Can´t wait for my Kaya KTB 55#, i probably can draw that 32".

Thumbs up

Re: Draw Length and Anchor

With the KTB, you will need a 35" arrow  big_smile .

Congrat on drawing to 30" with the Kassai Bear!  I saw your new video  smile .

Hannu wrote:

I had draw lenght about 27", even with thumbring.

Now i have been practising Korean style, and with my 80#@30" hungarian bow i now draw that 30".  big_smile

Can´t wait for my Kaya KTB 55#, i probably can draw that 32".

Thumbs up

Re: Draw Length and Anchor

How do You measure draw length?  From nock to belly or nock to the back of the bow?  On the Kaya Khan the difference is more than an inch.

Thumbs up

Re: Draw Length and Anchor

bjarup,
Based on Thomas' description above, I believe it to be the back of the bow.

That is how a lot of western shooters measure draw also. I cannot speak for the Khan, but for the hwarangs that I have/had,

I must have a draw of about 31.5 inches, drawing a 32.5 inch arrow to my thumb or finger.

Hopefully this helps, perhaps someone more knowledgeable can help.

Thumbs up

Re: Draw Length and Anchor

raven

Thanks. That's what I thougt.  Btw. Did You receive the private message I sent You?

Thumbs up

Re: Draw Length and Anchor

Yes I did, and I thought that I replied. But let me check again

Thumbs up

Re: Draw Length and Anchor

bjarup wrote:

How do You measure draw length?  From nock to belly or nock to the back of the bow?  On the Kaya Khan the difference is more than an inch.

Any other input on this question?

Thumbs up

Re: Draw Length and Anchor

The standard is nock to back. If I'm touching my thumb nail with the point shaft juncture I'd be drawing 32.5"+ with my Easton Flatlines

Thumbs up

Re: Draw Length and Anchor

zdog....I think that is just about where I am at also. Seems to shoot well at that draw length.

Thumbs up

Re: Draw Length and Anchor

@ 25 meters I'm getting 16" penetration into straw bales. I run out of Armstrong at about 28" drawthen switch to using my back muscles and the KTB is smooth until I run out of arrow.

Thumbs up

Re: Draw Length and Anchor

Zdog
What is the weight that you are pulling?

Thumbs up

Re: Draw Length and Anchor

50# @ 31"

Thumbs up

15

Re: Draw Length and Anchor

bluelake wrote:

[...]measuring from the end of the outstretched bow arm back to the draw arm by one's shoulder [...]

Hello Thomas,

Wouldn't you post a drawing to explain that ?

EM

PS : I'm having difficulties to make a measure by following (what I understand of) your instructions;
a drawing would resolve every doubt, particularly for those like me : with limited english proficiency.

Thumbs up

Re: Draw Length and Anchor

EM wrote:
bluelake wrote:

[...]measuring from the end of the outstretched bow arm back to the draw arm by one's shoulder [...]

Hello Thomas,

Wouldn't you post a drawing to explain that ?

EM

PS : I'm having difficulties to make a measure by following (what I understand of) your instructions;
a drawing would resolve every doubt, particularly for those like me : with limited english proficiency.

smile  I'll see what I can do in the next couple of days...

Thumbs up

Re: Draw Length and Anchor

Perfectly demonstrated here....
http://www.koreanarchery.org/punbb/viewtopic.php?id=25

Stance is generally two o'clock so the draw will be slightly shorter than if standing sideways to target.

Thumbs up

Re: Draw Length and Anchor

~HUN~ wrote:

Perfectly demonstrated here....
http://www.koreanarchery.org/punbb/viewtopic.php?id=25

Stance is generally two o'clock so the draw will be slightly shorter than if standing sideways to target.


In those photos, if you measured from where the back of the point is to where the archer's thumb ring is, you would have what you need.

Thumbs up

19

Re: Draw Length and Anchor

bluelake wrote:

In those photos, if you measured from where the back of the point is to where the archer's thumb ring is, you would have what you need.

Thank you Hun and Thomas,

This is the kind of photos that attracted me towards Korean archery; very "emblematic" for me. 
I'm happy to see those photos and to notice again the bent draw wrist, the very low position of the draw elbow. Korean traditional archers can achieve that, Kyudo archers also, but few westeners actually do it, even with a KTB. I'm wondering why.

Anyway, I try again an evaluation from those photos and I find again that my draw length would be somewhere between 35" and 37" [everybody said me months ago that this is way too much].

So, from this kind of photos you get a too imprecise and exagerated evaluation. And that's not astonishing because of parallax errors, the impossibility to measure the degree to which the bow shoulder is pushed inward or the bow arm extended or bent, etc. As Thomas said me some months ago, as we have more or less the same height (and I've an ordinary draw length with western bows), we should have the ~same draw length with KTB (32", if I remember well). [35" is said to be the limit of my bow, 34" the limit of my muscles :-) and also the limit of my arrows].

Another possibility would be to take photos of oneself and measure the draw length corresponding to an attitude similar to that of the Korean archer model. Assuming that one can achieve the correct form with one's KTB. I've already tried that, 4 months ago, and couldn't reach very clear conclusions (I should try again).

For now, the only thing I see really helpful would be a drawing of this kind : http://www.kyudo.com/arrow-length.gif. (but this one is valid for the arrow length with Kyudo/Yumi).

Thumbs up

20

Re: Draw Length and Anchor

bluelake wrote:

In those photos, if you measured from where the back of the point is to where the archer's thumb ring is, you would have what you need.

OK, I tried to compare the model archer (from one of the photos cited above) with what I can do for now ; 

Seems like I would need to draw ~4 inches more (if I wanted to put my draw hand as back as the model archer). That would be 36" or 37" ?!?!

Please, feel free to take a look to the attached image and to give your interpretations.

Post's attachments

compare ktb.png 482.53 kb, 1 downloads since 2011-12-21 

You don't have the permssions to download the attachments of this post.

Thumbs up

Re: Draw Length and Anchor

EM, you probably have a 35.5" draw.  The KTB may not be a suitable bow and you might instead consider the long version of either SMG or YMG.

Thumbs up

22

Re: Draw Length and Anchor

WarBow wrote:

EM, you probably have a 35.5" draw.  The KTB may not be a suitable bow and you might instead consider the long version of either SMG or YMG.

Thank you Warbow;

Hope I can still learn with the KTB before changing bows.

I tried to find information about YMG and SMG. Except from the interesting data in Ginni's recent posts, I found only this :

- about SMG / Song Mu Gung (on http://www.smgung.co.kr/2010/english.htm) : "jang-jung" bow length 130 cm / recommended arrow length 32" or longer [? not very precise !!!].

- about YMG / Yeung Mo Gung ? (nothing) Y.M. Jang ? (only in Korean, can't read it)

Thumbs up

Re: Draw Length and Anchor

EM, the KTB is capable of 34".  35" is the extreme limit.  I am not sure if you want to risk pulling it to 35".

Thumbs up

Re: Draw Length and Anchor

I doubt very much that the bowyers intended these bows to be drawn to these extreme lengths. It is asking much of such a short bow whose limb geometry is already considerable, to bend yet further, for another three inches.
To safely achieve 35" or more, I would expect the bow itself to be longer, by as much as 3"or even more. Note, safely means within a specified range and not absolute limit.

Thumbs up

Re: Draw Length and Anchor

Hun,

I see you are drawing your bow to about the same length as the gentleman with the beard in the photo above. To me this is just far more practical, in terms of real life situations that the ancients would use. Is this right?

Lets face it, the farther you draw the bow, the longer it takes to reach draw length, which means it takes longer to release the arrow, and for it to find its mark.

When hunting or at war, you want to be able to expedite this process as much as possible......because it is a matter of life and death.

What historical reference do we have for such long draw lengths? I have been scouring the net for old paintings, and have come up with very few that can be identified as korean, and comparable.

Thumbs up