351

(42 replies, posted in Bows)

Mule wrote:

First off, thanks for the reviews. Always fun to read stuff like this.

You're welcome.

I'm pretty sure if you ask when ordering they'd be willing to bark wrap their fibreglass and carbon bows for you. They already do it for their horn laminate and it's a $20 option on their bamboo bow.

That's good to know but I went with the synthetic material.  My review is aimed to critique that particular aspect. 

What is the YMG wrapped with?

Its threading and doesn't appear as prone to coming undone as the monofilament material.  Also its more traditional looking.

I ordered an SMG a few months ago and it came with an oversized foam grip that you're supposed to cut to size and wrap with included stippled rubber grip bands. I chose to make a leather grip instead. It's a bit of work, but I understand why they do it, it lets you customize the grip to your hand.

I didn't get the rubber grip bands when I ordered mine.  Must have been an oversight.  Regardless, I have rather big hands so I don't really bother with the shaping.

I mention this because above you mentioned SMG monofilament getting struck by arrows: the SMG now comes with a leather arrow pass pasted on top of the wire wrapping so your arrows should only make contact with this leather (my bow also came with spares in case you wore this out)

Mine came with one leather covering as I recall.  But not a spare.  Regardless, the issue is a little more complex then that since sometimes the leather patch will rub off.  HMG actually puts a very sturdy patch on that is well wrapped around.  My SMG wasn't like this.

Last I saw, their carbon bow was $250, the fibreglass is $200

Its been a while since I ordered but regardless 250 vs 280 with all those goodies is still a better value.

352

(42 replies, posted in Bows)

Thought I'd chime in here as I just got my HMG in today.  As of now, I've owned three of the more prominent synthetic Korean bows: SMG, YMG, and of course now the HMG.  So here's my comparison:

SMG: Actually was the first Korean bow I bought.  I sold it but actually miss it till this day.  I think SMG is a tremendous value for the money plus there's a lot of precision/QC that goes into the end product.  I'd agree with the prior reviews I've read here and ATARN that its probably one of the if not the fastest of the Korean synthetics.  It is not necessarily the most cosmetically pleasing but they do a good enough job with the synthetic covering so its tasteful enough and close enough to the aesthetics of a true horn composite.  The major con I found with it is I don't care for the monofilament wrapping above and below the grips.  I found that it could come apart too easily if one occasionally made shots where the vanes would braze the wrapping.

If SMG would change the wrapping material it would easily be the best out there, particularly when factoring in the low cost of the basic carbon SMG.

YMG: Likewise alot of precision/QC in the final product.  And yes its the most cosmetically close to the horn composites plus the grip is more delicately defined and superior wrapping material is used above and below the grip.  Its very fast like the SMG, though some express the opinion that they found the SMG faster.  I can't say scientifically one way of the other since I have never chronographed  the bows but typically, you buy a bow like the YMG for its finer qualities particularly in the superior materials used and of course the fact that it performs extraordinarily well. 

HMG: After setting the bow up today, I can honestly say its a happy medium to what the SMG and YMG are.  First, the cosmetics are so-so and some precision is lost it seems, particularly with the leather bow nock covering.  The leather doesn't appear as stretched out tightly as it could over the nock and so a bit of it actually sticks out at the tip, not fully flush against the surface.  So it has a rather crumpled look to it.  I also don't care too much for the spiraled patterns on the synthetic covering or the color of the synthetic covering, its somewhat gaudy.  Some assembly is required too for the bow as the grip material comes to you unattached.  You'll have to cut it into appropriately sized strands and wrap it around the grip your self.  I spent the morning doing that and used contact cement for the adhesive.  It turned out rather well, and its not uncommon I know to have to do this for a grip of a Korean bow but nonetheless its an extra layer of work that is required which the SMG and YMG don't. 

Some of the material I'm really pleased with though and actually find it quite exceptional compared to the others.  For instance, good string wrapping is used above and below the grip and at the siyah transition areas.  A very nice piece of what appears to be synthetic leather is placed for you at time of crafting based on whether or not you intend right handed or left handed use.  Its well placed around the side you intend to shoot and very sturdy, well glued etc. 

Regarding performance, both my SMG and YMG were 55 at 31 inches.  I bought the HMG at 45 at 31 so I can't say for sure if its 'stronger'.  Its certainly supple though and even at distances of 30 yards away from the target there really isn't a difference in drop off compared to my heavier YMG or SMG.  Its fast enough for its draw rate as I can honestly say I've had a synthetic Tatar bow at the same draw weight from a rather low grade company that was pathetically sluggish.  So even an average Korean synthetic bow will easily out perform any of the other synthetics on the market, particularly the lower grade companies as I like to think of them.

I'd say its a pretty decent value for its sticker price, but its overall not better then the YMG or even the SMG particularly value wise for the later.  At 280 USD, it comes with string, and grip wrapping material.  At 200 USD, SMG gives you its base carbon bow with two strings and a bow bag and bow sock.  Only aspects of the SMG material are somewhat lesser compared to the HMG but truthfully, you could always purchase some type of leather that's malleable enough and glue it around the monofilament wrapping of the SMG and you'd be just as good to go. cool

353

(30 replies, posted in Arrows)

Greenman's instructions concerning nocks are for mounting a hard wood dowel/plug of a certain length to be used as an actual hardwood nock like the ones shown here:

http://greenmanarchery.blogspot.com/201 … oject.html

Regarding the sentence pertaining to tapering some type of wood that I posted, he is advocating either some type of hardwood or bamboo to be used as a taper point so an actual point can be glued on:

http://greenmanarchery.blogspot.com/201 … oject.html

http://greenmanarchery.blogspot.com/201 … oject.html

354

(30 replies, posted in Arrows)

This guy may have the answer to that as I know he sells/sold the bamboo plugs on ebay occasionally:

http://bambooarrows.com/

However, even on his instructional site he advises the use of hard wood for nocking and making a tapered point to glue on ones point.

Greenmanarchery also says this:

While this is a bit of an extreme example you can easily see why the shaft will be easier to work with when the center of the bamboo is filled.

Once the glue is set the ends of the shafts are tapered for the field points on the Woodchuck taper tool. With bamboo you need to use a sanding-type taper tool. The pencil sharpener style of taper tool won't work on bamboo.

So naturally its harder to use bamboo for such a purpose.  Traditionally, it was hardwood used for such purposes usually when crafting the Korean bamboo arrow.

355

(30 replies, posted in Arrows)

I haven't tried yet but this guy gives probably one of the better tutorials around on how to go about that:

http://greenmanarchery.blogspot.com/201 … oject.html

May pick up some of the pre-made nocks from 3rivers and try a few myself in the near future.  Otherwise, to get into the fine art of nock or dowel making for bamboo arrows, a type lathe is required:

http://www.cdhm.org/imag/images/2010-11 … -lathe.jpg

356

(7 replies, posted in Bows)

a1111318 wrote:
Mule wrote:

Also their prices for SMG bows are ~50$ higher

Thank you so much, But the issue is I send email to SMG many times.  It is no reply from them at all.  I also call them but it seems they can not speak English very well. We can not communicate at all. It is very upset for me.  sad  sad  sad

Contact the user Mechwar here on this forum.  He is the international sales rep for SMG.  He can help you out. cool

357

(10 replies, posted in Buy/Sell/Trade)

Darn. hmm

I'm out then.  Thanks anyway.

358

(10 replies, posted in Buy/Sell/Trade)

ok.  I may be interested if its the 50 inch one.

359

(10 replies, posted in Buy/Sell/Trade)

What is the length of the bow?

360

(1 replies, posted in North America)

ah another 'mid-atlanticer'.

I'm in the area you could say.  Where do you shoot?  In VA, or at Adelphi maybe?  I occasionally go here:

http://www.baltimorebowmen.com/

Tiger is rather pricey and I know from buying horn plates from him, that his products can be completely unsuitable at times.

I bought from Oulay and price wise they were very reasonable.  Some of the shorter bamboo arrows I made from them are still around however the longer ones I made (32/33 inches long) broke after a few shots.  However I am making some reinforced with sinew at the point end so I'm hoping my bad experiences were because I didn't do proper reinforcing.  Maybe others who are a little more familiar with the nuances of bamboo arrow making can chime in here.

362

(13 replies, posted in Bows)

Mule,

'Like' to 'like' isn't the issue here which you've been trying to make it out as.  Furthermore, no two horn bows are exactly alike.  Please stop and listen to what Thomas says but also get the Karpowicz book.  Horn bows are not something you can just 'hop into'.  And they can't be compared to how synthetic bows behave either.  You need to get educated on them and find the relevant literature that will enlighten you.  I have provided the link to Adam's book.  That is pretty much the bar standard for understanding nearly everything you'll need to on horn bows.  If you buy a hornbow now with the understanding you currently have, you will most likely be in for an unfortunate experience.

363

(13 replies, posted in Bows)

Mule,

It honestly doesn't matter if I'm comparing the flight bows to the war bows.  Its not even what your initial post was about anyway.  Also I'd recommend buying or getting a hold of 'Ottoman Turkish bows' by Adam Karpowicz if you haven't already.  If you have, you really need to pay close attention to what he says on page 36 where he talks about the loss of reflex that can occur over time with use and how it can change the overall shape.  Also on page 37 of his book, he shows an Ottoman flight bow unstrung from Topkapi Palace and its not nearly as reflexed as you are making them out to be.  The one Turkish bow you've shown is actually an example of an old one that has reverted back to its highly reflexed form due to lack of use.

I don't know how new you are to all this or if you understand, but I highly recommend getting Adam's book to help you understand the nature of horn composite bows.  They're completely different beasts then the modern synthetics and can be very different in characteristics from each other based on type.  Even Lucas will tell you that the material of them is alive and has a mind of its own.

For your future reading endeavors:

http://www.ottoman-turkish-bows.com/

364

(13 replies, posted in Bows)

Mule,

Actually I'm being quite fair, as most do not go to a horn bowyer for a Turkish flight bow.  Hence, most bowyers put enough 'meat' on their Turkish bows which is closer indeed to the war bows.  They also do this because average archer is not going to have the time or patience to go through the normal bracing procedure as that of a Korean bow.  Even this Turkish bow doesn't have a reflex as extreme as the one you show:

http://hunarchery.com/catalog/images/HornBowTurkish44GreenRedGoldUnstrung_n.JPG

or the one all the way to the left here in the museum:

http://www.turkishculture.org/images/page/military/weapons/archery/turkish_traditional_archery_part2/pic2.jpg

The design too makes a difference as well.  Korean bows typically don't have the same type of limb width or mass as a Turkish.  Turkish bows are inherently 'meatier' by nature.  Besides, Lukas' and even Grozer' horn bows are made with more 'meat' to accommodate the modern archer who wants a horn bow but does not want to go through the same you would with something like the Korean bow.

Bottom line: if you don't follow the procedures properly for stringing and maintaining a Korean horn bow, you'll be in for an unpleasant experience.  Also, the reason that Korean bow has that type of shape in your picture is because its been kept properly in a heat box as well as braced properly and used frequently.  They have a mind of their own. Use gives them dynamic stability. That is why when not in use you have to keep them in a hot box and heat when tillering.

365

(13 replies, posted in Bows)

I'd say they have more like half the amount (at best) compared to one another.  They're significantly different beasts in this regard.  A Korean bow has to be supple enough to be able to brace and remain so and that's why the heat box is so crucial.  Otherwise, a Korean bow will likely revert to this shape:

http://www.hornbow.com/Pyogu600.jpg

This is a far cry from the typical reflexed state of typical Turk bow:

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb472/FrancescoAlessi79/Turk17/All2small.jpg

366

(13 replies, posted in Bows)

Wouldn't the need for the heatbox afterall be the very extreme reflex that the bow has which is unlike any other traditional horn composite?

You'd pretty much have to own a korean horn bow to see why its very necessary for the heatbox if you have trouble believing.

What's a good type of glue to use for gluing feathers to bamboo?

368

(10 replies, posted in Technique)

Yes good points  sissara, and I went with jang-gung this time around indeed.  Its definitely more appropriate for me given my arm length.  My draw is just about at 31 inches with a 32 inche arrow.  Its actually easier for me using my old 31 inche SMG arrows.  So drawing more at 30 inches appears a tad more appropriate then 31.

I really couldn't achieve any of this comfortably on the shortest Korean bow that I once owned.  The stack plus my arm length issue just felt completely awkward/uncomfortable.  The hardest, but also perhaps most crucial part of selecting an appropriate bow for oneself does indeed appear to lie in selecting appropriate length of bow in addition to getting arrow length right.

369

(10 replies, posted in Technique)

I see....

Well, when I did strength training my 60-85 pound bows 'felt like noodles' as the saying goes.  But all those were bows using a med./western style draw.  My 85 at 28 inches English longbow I can still pull back quite easily.  Couldn't have done it though if I didn't target the lower back area appropriately.  50 rated at whatever has really been my optimal draw weight for awhile now, particularly for bows I use the thumb-draw.

In the meantime, for my Hwarang, I'll just have to do some training.

370

(10 replies, posted in Technique)

lol, well its certainly not a 'philosophy'. 

But the types of longbows I had to train for certainly required me to target certain areas more then others.  The draw technique for Korean archery is obviously different then English longbow draw techniques. 

So cheer up, nothing to be sad about.  Besides its just 5 pounds to work at getting used to.  There's really no 'he-man' factor here friend.  People do occasionally like to work up to other draw weights eventually anyway.  Nothing really wrong with that.

371

(10 replies, posted in Technique)

or will it ruin one's bow rather. tongue  wink

I actually did strength training for longbows back in the day when I was into such.  Its theoretically, if I am not mistaken, a different muscle use ratio, that is comparing thumbring draw to "western/med". draw.  I believe it was more lower back when I was drawing an English traditional longbow using the more traditional methods.  That's what I was targeting more back in the day. 

I think it may be more appropriate to target different muscles this time around.

372

(10 replies, posted in Technique)

I see.  I was afraid that may be more the reason.  I know with my 50 @ 32 Mariner I can do that well for 5 seconds.  My old Hwarang that was 50 at 28 I could hold easily as well.

My old SMG was rated 55 @ 32 and I wanted the same for my Hwarang this time around.  I do recall similar locking problems with the SMG at that draw weight.  50 is really my max it seems but I had my reasons for putting on the extra 5 pounds.  Its not that big of a deal really.  Now I know just to do more strength training at the gym.  I think I can close that 5 pound gap.

373

(10 replies, posted in Technique)

Forward creep - when you have trouble locking the pulling arm down so it doesn't creep forward thus thwarting your draw.  Still gets the best of me till this day.

So what is the best way to correct this?  How better should I be thinking of what my pulling arm does?  I'm aware of 'pull the tigers tail, and push for the mountain' plus 'backwards elbow punch' as described in Saracen archery but the problem is sometimes achieving that plane of equilibrium so everything is perfectly balanced and doesn't shake, tremble or creep. How precisely speaking should everything be lined up?

Thanks.

374

(14 replies, posted in Bows)

~HUN~ wrote:

Personally I would not bother with the Saluki hybrid bow either, they are more like concept bows. In fact all of his bows are way overpriced IMO.

This is true.  And there are others out there who do work comparable to what Lukas does (laminated bamboo layers backed with glass) and for a far less wallet destroying price.  Mariner in particular comes to mind.  The Han 1 I have is amazing and remains my go to bow for shooting these days more then any other bow.  Matter of fact I may take it out hunting this week, either that or my Golhan Turk. cool

My Saluki's are getting quite the rest these days.

375

(14 replies, posted in Bows)

Mujahid wrote:

looking at getting a traditional bow. For horse archery and hunting.
Which one:
Saluki Hybrid
Grozer composite
Hwarang

From my experience I would definitely scratch off anything by Grozer.  Even if you get a good bow by Grozer, it will still be inferior to a Hwarang or Saluki. 

That being said, Lukas' bows have a feel to them that screams 'this is what you want for hunting'.  The price for a Saluki is kinda steep though these days.  Korean bows are excellent of course but I don't take mine out hunting.  Not that it couldn't do the job, more like its just not preferred.  A Hwarang though will give you much 'boom for your buck' as the saying goes.

However, I'd also consider Golhan Turk bows and Mariner.  Both of these are very good choices and excellent values!