Thank you.
I will report results back - if the weather allows for testing.

And to everbody a nice Christmas, or whatever holyday one celebrates during the solstice.  smile

Last weekend the shaft I ordered for testing arrived finally.
This were six with a .600 spine, and six with a .400 spine, all of said brand.
I prepared three of each for flight shooting tests, with short, clipped fletchings, the standard insert, and 30gn points, and full length of 33".
The weights are 240gn for the .600, and 300gn for the .400 arrows.
Might be able to test them over the Christmas holydays.

It is quite difficult to get a textured material like wood really smooth, at least such small and curved parts.
You could make the inner diameter a bit bigger, and glue leather on the inside.
Or some similar material which could distribute the pressure more easily.

104

(17 replies, posted in Arrows)

In my club, wood arrows are also not allowed for FITA targets. If anyone cares is another question ...
For the 3D training area, wood and bamboo are certainly allowed.
And for 3D competitions, carbon arrows are not allowed for the primitive/horse/longbow classes, i.e. wood or bamboo are mandatory.

As said, I'm going to give it a try with my wife's phone soon (meaning, around Christmas ...).
But there is another catch which is not stated in the app or documentation- you need to make the measurement beside the bow, or behind.
With acoustics, you can't ignore signal runtime, and in-between or at-target measurement would require a different runtime correction.

106

(17 replies, posted in Arrows)

I have experience with Alibow, but only bows, not their arrows.
The price, at least, seems reasonable attractive.
You most probably get target shafts, not cross-wound 3D/field shafts (which would be heavier, more expensive, but more robust).
That would be fine for indoor, got some cheap Avalon Tyro arrows (4,- Euro each) for my daughter last year, and almost no loss up to now with less than 20#.
I'd be interested to hear how they can muster shafts of 38" length (95cm), as promised on their page.

I'm shooting Easton Inspire 500 (32" long) with bows ranging from 25# to 40#.
However, my draw length hardly exceeds 31".

Since it seems to fit here somehow:
Anybody aware of the free "Bowometry" App for Android devices ?
It measures arrow speed (and energy) using acoustics, and runs on Android devices like smartphones and tablets.

I tested it last week with an older tablet, with mixed results, most probably because of the poor microphone of the device.
Readings of 10 shots with a 30# "Carbon Forever" and 380gn carbon arrows were either about 120fps, 150fps, or 200fps.
Not really conclusive, but I try my wife's smartphone as soon as I can.

I read reports of others, claiming results quite close to "real" archery Chronographs.

108

(8 replies, posted in Arrows)

If the points actually served a military purpose, they could be foreign as well, i.e. from a conflict.

BTW, some of my (superficial) knowledge of the history of Korean archery is found here:
http://www.manchuarchery.org/korean-vie … hu-archery

But I guess you knew already.

109

(8 replies, posted in Arrows)

Any idea about the age of this points ?
Iron artifacts are usually not dateable, but perhaps by surrounding natural or cultural artifacts.

Had the Korean arrow head sizes and weights been standardized in former times ?

110

(8 replies, posted in Arrows)

No idea about the original weights; the points both lost a lot from oxidation.

I thought so. But I supposed this points are similar to better preserved one's, perhaps in a museum.

111

(8 replies, posted in Arrows)

A bit corroded, but interesting.
The tang on the broadhead type (right) suggests it was used with bamboo shaft, right ?
At least for the bodkin type tip  I assume a military use.

Do you know the approximate weight of the original (uncorroded) tip ?
European medieval arrow heads for war used to have about 250 ... 400 gn, if I remember correctly.

I followed a discussion in a local forum, with guys building english warbows and arrows for "fun".
The bows had "only" 70 to 100#, and the arrows 1200 to 1500 gn.
For lack of historical armaments, they use decommisioned traffic signs for testing ...

112

(11 replies, posted in Bows)

Just for information.
I tried to order a Nomad KTB from a local dealer, but got a negative feedback.
The ordered draw weight (35#) was not available, and would not be in the foreseeable future.
So I switched to a White Feathers bow again.
And up to now, I don't regret it.
Albeit just 5# more, it casts my relatively heavy bamboo arrows (500gn) with sufficient power to reach all 3D distances without much arcing.

113

(7 replies, posted in Arrows)

Ragnar, how are the arrowforge woodies in consistency? (grouping, weight, spine)

Quite good. One can order sets of 6 shafts, spined and weighted to +-0.5 gramm.
I ordered two sets, requesting the same weight range.
Checked them, and they were all within tolerance.
I broke a few of them, but the rest are my tournament arrows.
And the arrows are good enough for  me (as advanced beginner) I see no difference in grouping, compared to Carbon arrows.

And have you tried the maximal edges?

Not yet, but I plan to do this soon.
But a fellow archer at my club shoots them, and is quite satisfied.

114

(7 replies, posted in Arrows)

The "Maximal Carbon Edge" arrows mentioned in another thread would probably fit your description.
Factory length is 33", spines ranges from 800 to 300, with a weight of 4.9gpi for the 700 variant.

115

(7 replies, posted in Arrows)

My arrows are 32", that's the longest he has.

This seems to be a common problem with carbon arrows.
The "Maximal Carbon Arrow EDGE" (mentioned in another thread) and certain Njora shaft are a few I know to be at least 33".

where do you buy your wood/bamboo arrows/shafts?

Arrowforge.de is a quite good supplier, but he has no english version of his site AFAIK.
Peter Dekker at manchuarchery.org sells bamboo shafts, but if I can choose, I prefer the closest supplier ...

Not sure about the situation in Sweden (where you are from, if I understand correctly).

I am still in the "setup" phase, which means I shoot a low draw weight (25..30#), "technique over distance/power".
And for tournaments, I use cedar (Port Orford Cedar), having a weight about 20 gramms for 32" and 35-40# bare shafts.
Arrow weight is then 24 gramm (about 375 grain), compared to 30..32 gramm for bamboo.

116

(7 replies, posted in Arrows)

Hi !

First post   smile

There is an extra introduction section, if you like (General Discussions-> New member introduction).

... on eBay

I avoid eBay, always afraid of getting a WLAN cable instead ... big_smile

How long are your arrows ?
I have some Carbon arrows, but beyond 31", the selection gets rather small.

And I like to participate in 3D tournaments some times, where I'm required to use wood/bamboo arrows in my bow class.
So, I rarely shoot with carbon nowadays.

117

(12 replies, posted in Bows)

It's my experience, too, that bowyers often make concessions here, in particular when their reputation is at stake.
I followed a case in another forum, where a guy crashed 3 Kaya Black Shadow bows in a row (each after about four weeks, in a period of a half year).
It turned out - in the forum discussion -he drew the bow to 34", clearly beyond specs.
Freddie nonetheless replaced them for free, without asking back ...

118

(12 replies, posted in Bows)

Although the idea of the bow losing integrity after getting warm is a practical one, ...

I believe a deformation caused by (moderate) heat would be reversible.
I would suggest to contact SMG /the bowyer, he should know best.

119

(18 replies, posted in Bows)

Small update to my WF bow.
I had been participating in a 3D tournament last week with said White Feathers bow.
Quite an interesting experience, and I met a few other thumb archers.
Some relevant stuff:

1.
A very small number of participants in the horsebow class (about 10 at all), just me with a Korean style bow.
The others, being mostly from the same club, had Robert Vegh Scythian bows.
I was lucky to team up with one of those "Scythians", who had a 50# bow with bamboo arrows.
He is practicing thumb draw for some years.

2.
After a lame start (have been a bit nervous, and was my first 3D tournament), I could keep up quite well, being on par with my Scythian group member.
That doesn't say too much about the bow, though.

3.
The other group members (being already in their sixties) had trouble pulling the wood/bamboo arrows shot by both horsebows.
(Wood/bamboo arrows were mandatory for the horsebow class.)
I found that penetration with my 30# bow and his 50# Scythian were approximately the same, significantly more than the Carbon arrows of the BHR (Bow Hunter Recurve) group members.

4.
Another group member shot a TD recurve of a renown European bowyer, costing about 4..5 times as much as my bow.
The bow had 28#, he had Carbon arrows of approx. 300..350 grain.
Watching him shooting, the arrows arced visibly at 25 yard and beyond, much more than my bow with heavier arrows.

My conclusions from the tournament, and from similar observations at my club - White Feather bows are about on par with Kaya and Nomad KTBs, and matching the efficiency of mid or high range recurve bows.

Concerning durability, I can't say much yet, having the bow less than a year.
Going to report back here anything interesting.

120

(11 replies, posted in Bows)

Uhhh, .... perhaps.
I see several Europeans posting Youtube videos shooting traditional Korean bows, even higher end one's.
And I know of such archers from fora here.
They apparently imported their bows themselves, directly from Korea.
And honestly, the higher end Korean bows are not soooo expensive, compared to high end recurves and longbows.
The price level I've seen is about 1000 Euro/USD, give or take 100.
I think the irregular shape of a recurve bow grip with several laminate layers, usually as a takedown design, is driving up this costs.
Together with high taxes and wage costs here, of course.
Just check out "Border Archery Ltd." for a taste of hig-end recurves and prices.

But IMHO the market for such bows would be small.
There is no real incentive for new archers to go Korean style here in Europe.
No clubs teaching this style, and no support for competitions.

Very few competitions feature a separate horsebow class, this is the most one can expect.
Next weekend I compete in one about 100 miles away, with 7 of the 200 starters registered for this horsebow class.
This bow class is shared with Turkish, Hungarian and similar style archers, even mediterranean.
Winning is secondary for me, I just want to make contact with other similar-minded archers - even if it's the neighboring country ...

Shooting ranges here usually feature the FITA distances only, with 90m (100 yard) max.
As mentioned before, if I draw Korean style (arrow at an upward angle), people come running with safety concerns ...
I switched to a inchworm (Gao Ying) style draw.

But this is my personal opinion, and impressions gathered discussing with other archers via fora.

AFAIK the Turkish style is, beside thumb draw, somehow similar to the mediterranean, with anchor points in the face.
That means the draw lengths are similar as well, with an 28" average.
So, you will need a bow that allows for the Korean draw length first.
Apart from that, I think one can get use to the different grip, albeit it does IMHO not allow the exact same gripping.
But the forward bulge gives you a large "lever" for Korean style twist.

I tried Hungarian and Scythian style bows, with the grip bulging backward rather than forward.
Results were mixed, because the Hungarian is a bit heavy for me (45#), and the Scythian stacks terribly at 28".
What I view as a advantage - one can easily hold several arrows in the bow hand, without rattling or affecting the shot.
See the Kassai videos as an extreme example ...

122

(11 replies, posted in Bows)

Either that, or perhaps a tax issue.

Coincidentally, VW cars are considerably more expensive in Germany (the place of final assembly), than elsewhere.
Management and dealers cite "image" reasons, price is supposed to represent "value".
I am more of a pragmatic person, and car trouble statistics speak a slightly different language.

Coming back to bows, I value durability and performance over "image" and adornments here, too.
With White Feather bows being relatively new, there are not much longtime experiences, so I have to stick with the reputation of the manufacturer ...

123

(12 replies, posted in Bows)

Had some ideas about it.
How do you store the bow ?
Does it get direct or indirect sunlight ?
I see plastic nocks on some of my arrows turning whitish after about two years, stored near a window facing north.
A common effect, easily seen with cheaper plastic garden furniture.

124

(11 replies, posted in Bows)

At archery dealers here in the region (usually about 500km perimeter for me).
For Korean archery stuff they are just distributors, so it doesn't really matter where - it is the same product.
Many dealers even leave the label from the main European importer on the package, JVD in the Netherlands.
Curiously, many bows at Freddies Korean page are almost twice as expensive as here.

125

(11 replies, posted in Bows)

Haha no, it's Hyun Mu Gung (Korean is not the best language to be Romanized). Although if Hyundai Motor were to make KTBs, KTA would be little more popular in Korea.

Probably true. Hyundai was the first "thing" that came up when searching for HMG. Hyun Mu Gung as well ...
As European with no personal relations to Asia, I have no knowledge of East Asian ideographs - unfortunately.

I have the strong suspicion that "White Feather" is a brand created in collusion with European distributors, to serve the European/western market. Nothing wrong with that.
The WF bows I've seen/own feature no Korean ideographs anywhere, in contrast to the Windfighter and the Kaya KTB.


Do people who buy KTB practice thumb draw? Also, in your opinion, what do you think people like about KTB?

Good question.
Yes, they do. Me and other persons I communicate with via other (non-english) fora practice thumb draw with KTBs.
With "KTB" as generalization for Traditional Korean Bow.

Some shoot mediterranean - I started shooting 3-finger style with my first Kaya KTB as well.
But I was never satisfied with any "mediterranean" anchor points, and my short draw.
And trying the style the bow is designed for was just the logical conclusion.
However, there are very few (or no) instructors for any East Asian style available here (Austria/Germany).
I'm the only one in my club shooting horsebow, let alone thumb draw or Korean style ...
The came running when I was drawing with a raised bow ...

What do I think why people like KTB ?
KTB is mainly presented by Freddies bows here.
They are inexpensive, sturdy and durable (usually), and very fast.
Their performance (arrow speed by draw weight /arrow weight) is comparable the mid-range recurve bows.
My 40# Kaya KTB was casting 400grain arrows at about 200fps - with a significantly shorter draw than 31".
But mainly the price.
For the same money, you get a cheap fiberglass horsebow that shakes your teeth out, or a mediocre longbow.
This is longbow country here, good one's start at a price of two Freddie bows.