151 Reply by ragnar

(26 replies, posted in Arrows)

A 600 spine would have been my first guess as well.
And 33" gives me a bit of headroom, shortening arrows reduces effective spine as well.
With the KTB (now WhiteFeather) 40# bow, a 500 spine, 31" flies quite well.
I use to try a khatra, but everything looks and feels a bit "artificial".

Actually, the arrows are intended for a bow from Alibow.
Getting your hands on "horse bows" with a non-centercut grip and draw >32" is quite difficult in Europe.
And because my "higher draw weight" bows seem to mess up my emerging technique, I take a step back to a 25# bow.
Well, and a bit of pain in the thumb, maybe.

Since it is more of an intermediate solution, I don't want to spend too much.
The bow is a cheaper fiberglass variant, and $20 arrows would be disproportionate IMHO.
Distances are probably not exceeding 30 meters.

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152 Topic by ragnar

(26 replies, posted in Arrows)

Just in case ...
Does anyone know this carbon arrows ? Are they worth the money ?

I ask because they are one of the very few options for lightweight arrows that are long enough (33"), and are available with proper spine (300 .. 800).
I need arrows for low-poundage training (25#) that don't cost a fortune.

I found a few dealer references, but no valuable review.

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153 Reply by ragnar

(18 replies, posted in Bows)

Two days before, I pulled my Grozer Nomad out of the corner, and got away without bruises. The Grozer grip is higher, but more narrow.
Brace height is quite low, at least compared to "normal" recurves. I can cross-check with the Windfighter. Or with the retired KTB.

I consider modifying the grip, but wait until I'm "ready" for thumb draw with this bow.

Edit:
Brace height of my Windfighter is even lower, about 5.2" compared to 5.6". Yet he doesn't slap me.

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154 Reply by ragnar

(18 replies, posted in Bows)

Just as an info, I took the bow out lat weekend on our club's shooting range.
Shooting it for about an hour, there seems to be no great difference to the (Kaya) KTB of the same poundage. I was using mediterranean draw exclusively, though.

The only difference - a large bruising at my bow arm. Never needed one with the Kaya, and still don't need one with the windfighter. Small differences with the grip, and a large one on my arm  yikes

And, the silvery arrow protection began to wear of after the first shots. I think I going to put some thin leather protection on.

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155 Reply by ragnar

(115 replies, posted in Bows)

Exactly.
BTW, according to post on other fora, mentioned smartphone app requires some "tweaking" and "calibration shots".
That sounds to me like cheating, i.e. aligning results to a more precise device (the light barrier based Chrono) by a fudge factor.

Anyway, the video method is fine for me. I'm happy with this ballpark numbers ...

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156 Reply by ragnar

(115 replies, posted in Bows)

Hmm. This + slow motion video??
http://physlets.org/tracker/

Having heard of a smartphone app that uses an audio-based approach, I tried something similar.
Just having a dumb phone, I switched equipment ...

I recorded myself shooting over a known distance, using a standard SD camera.
The video file is then converted to audio. I'm using "fre:ac", a free tool for Linux.
And finally, I used a standard audio editor (Audacity) to view the audio, and measure the time between shot and impact.
In an average environment, the two events are very distinct and easy to make out, simply by the audio level.
There are two issues, though.
First, sound travels much slower than light. That means one needs to correct the times for the signal propagation delay, which is about 30 milliseconds for 10 meters (about 20 per cent for a 150 fps bow at 10m). And, depending on camera position, this time needs to be added or subtracted.
Second, the shot event especially looks a bit protracted, not sure where exactly start to measure.

I might toying around with it in the next time, and see what results I get.
A Chronograph is currently not worth my money, and too boring ...
And for video analysis, I guess one needs a good camera, supporting at least 200 frames per second.
In "normal" video mode, I usually don't see the arrow, or just a fuzzy line.

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157 Reply by ragnar

(58 replies, posted in Bows)

I have just a limited amount of arrows long enough ...
While it is a bit heavy, the FOC seems to be optimal. I purchased them about 15 years ago, in the "crap corner" of a hunting equipment shop. And replacing the vanes with feathers gave an extra 20 meters or so. Other carbon arrows of the same or less weight were consistently 10 .. 20 meters behind, so weight is not the only factor.
I don't do flight shooting for distance, rather for comparison of bows and arrows. With a Grozer G6 Nomad (45#) and a Kassai Bear (60#), a got about 200m, with the same arrow.
And yes, I shot with khatra, at least I think so. My technique is still in development, though.

But I think CTR's comment is "on target". Korean bows, just as Hungarian or other historical bows, are made to have the greatest possible effect on a moderately distant object. And heaving consumed Dr. Ashby's work, arrow weight distinctly beats arrow velocity when it comes to penetration.
Turkish flight shooting had been a kind of sports, consisting of an optimal bow and a very good shooting technique. But beside that, it had (IMHO) no value for hunting or military purposes.

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158 Reply by ragnar

(9 replies, posted in New Member Introductions)

Pedro C wrote:

Welcome!

I don't know what to tell people who ask why I do thumb draw/Korean bows. Just because I read about it online and it seemed really cool. Or something. Maybe I want to be different. Maybe I want to shoot the way people shot a long time ago. ...

I agree - and it feels better somehow. Even when shooting mediterranean style, I have the tendency to draw back to my ear. And, (even physicians agree on that) the twisted wrist in mediterranean three-finger draw puts much more stress on joints and cartilages.
Relaxation is a point as well, I would even call it a form of meditation. And the lightweight and unforgiving bows from Freddie (Kaya, Nomad, ...) are good teachers ...

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159 Reply by ragnar

(58 replies, posted in Bows)

I know the thread had been dormant for month, but posting my comment for reference.
With less than 6 month of thumb draw experience, I achieved 216m with a Kaya KTB (40#, 50" length), and 236m with a Kaya Windfighter (50#).
Arrow had been a 31" slim Carbon with 500 gn in both cases. Distances had been measured with GPS.

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160 Reply by ragnar

(9 replies, posted in New Member Introductions)

I agree - some foods, especially cheese and beer, are very good here.
Have been to the US and tasted so-called "Bud", so I thank I can compare ...  big_smile

Would be shooting a Glock too, but it's almost impossible for normal people to get a firearm legally here.
That leaves more time for archery, including "standard" recurves and compounds ...

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161 Reply by ragnar

(9 replies, posted in New Member Introductions)

Just tell those other archers you have arthritis in your fingers & only your thumb can draw the bow

What I didn't tell in my  introductory post - I am old enough to ignore opinions that obviously stem from ignorance ... smile

My paisley-KTB (40#@50") began to delaminate some month ago, so I retired him a few weeks ago.
I still have a "post paisley" Kaya (a Windfighter) that works well, and a White Feather bow as replacement for said KTB.

Anyway, greetings to the other side of the world ...
  Frank

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162 Topic by ragnar

(18 replies, posted in Bows)

Wanting to replace my almost-broken Kaya KTB, I asked for a new one at a local dealer.
He offered me a "White Feathers" bow named "Carbon Forever" instead.
I tested it a few times, found it quite similar to the Kaya bow, and purchased one.

However, having a closer look, the bow is not a re-dressed Kaya.
Does anyone know what it is ?
A new brand name of Freddie archery, with a new (improved) design ?

There is a website, but "under construction" and barely functional.
My dealer suggested it is a brand of Freddie archery, produced for the non-Asian markets, mainly on instigation of JVD in the Netherlands.
I have no idea if this is true, but all label on the bow are in Latin characters (not Korean like KTB), and mostly in English.

And BTW, the bows are in about the same price range, just slightly cheaper than the "Nomad" bows.

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163 Topic by ragnar

(9 replies, posted in New Member Introductions)

Hello, being new to this forum, I'd like to introduce myself.
My name is Frank, and I'm currently living in Austria (that small country to the south of Germany - NOT Australia ;-)).

I had an interest in archery from early childhood on, often practicing quite irregularly.
For obvious reasons, I had been shooting mediterranean style up to last year.
Purchasing a Kaya KTB a while ago got me interested thumb archery, both the Korean and Chinese style.
A few month ago, I seriously started practicing, mostly with my KTB (this is another story...).

While there seem to be some lonely archers practicing Korean style archery here, it is little-known here and often seen as "strange" by others.
A fellow archer at my club, having watched me for a while, asked last week why I don't draw with three fingers as the others ...

Hope I can answer some question here, and share my experiences.

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