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Korean Traditional Archery → Posts by geoarcher
The price suggests these arrows actually have "gold tips" ...
They were selling for around 150 USD not too long ago. Prices keep going up across the board on that site for nearly everything. Think even the group that sells traditional Korean archery equipment over on ebay has been gradually increasing their prices.
For comparison, arrows like that in Kyudo would cost anywhere from 2-9 times as much.
BTW, I remember several real horn/sinew bow offers here in Europe, between 1500 ... 5000€. Not quite Korean, but very similar.
Being on another archery forum with hobby bowyers (successfully) building horn/sinew bows and recalling their build-along descriptions, I'm a bit suspicious of the "authenticity" of said Freddie's bow...
Sinew preparation is a tedious process, and glue drying takes weeks in each step.
Its very confusing how this item is being marketed. Labeled a 'true' gakgung yet the picture suggests its some fort of continuation from that ~500 USD series. Specs of course in the picture seem to suggest its a synthetic with horn belly. Tageuk and SMG have made similar products for quite a bit less. The price of this item nearly approaches the price of an actual gakgung.
However, I suspect the marketing behind this is it to have something so close in specs and aesthetics to a gakgung but without actually being one (less hassle for maintenance, operation, stringing). And so the term 'authentic' is being used somewhat clumsy to convey this.
Anyway, at 800 plus dollars I doubt we'll hear any user reviews on this item anytime soon.
I've seen many Korean videos where bow bracing is done but in those it looks the bow has already thoroughly been tamed. When the bow is being braced by the dojigae in those videos it looks like this right before bracing:
https://www.ebay.ie/itm/TRADITIONAL-KOR … 2112611342
However when a hornbow is first received it looks like this:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ … k_gung.jpg
I was wondering if for very new bows, some extended time on dojigae is required before going any further in order to shape the bow more into its proper bracing form.
This is an interesting sugaki:
http://www.koreanbow.com/shop/index.php … ;id_lang=1
Is a little more tapered and streamlined than the one I got from Freddie Archery years ago.
Bought a set of these a while ago:
http://www.koreanbow.com/shop/index.php … ;id_lang=1
Beautiful works of art but am saving them for a special occasion. And a very soft target.
Saw this over at koreanbows.com:
http://www.koreanbow.com/shop/index.php … ;id_lang=1
Is labeled as an 'authentic gakgung' yet specifications include fiberglass in addition to horn among wood and other elements. No sinew to be found. Sells for 845 USD and then there are the ones at ~500 USD.
Interesting.
******Update******
Bow: Elong Outdoor's NIKA ET-4 Meng Yuan Traditional Bow
Bow Rating: 30#@28"
Actual Draw: 36#@32.5"
Arrow Type: Easton Axis 700s @ 32.5"
Arrow weight: 311 grains
GPP: 8.6
FPS: 163Energy: 18 ft. lbs.
Efficiency: 0.50Only a slight increase in efficiency but I gotta say I enjoy this one so much more. I was able to get a speed of 155 fps even with one of my 416 grain Goldtips. The numbers for energy and efficiency may not be there but the enjoyment is. I wonder if they'll make a 40lb version next or if they'll stop here?
So just a heads up on this one, this bow actually broke on me. And after hardly any use. They have since stood by their product and sent me a new one.
And a final point I'll bring up regards the invading Mongol led force's bows: they appear to be relatively short (certainly compared to the Yumi) asymmetrical horn composites (presumably). Sort of more like what you'd find among the Huns.
That's right. The Mongol Tsagaan Khad bow was asymmetric apparently.
And a final point I'll bring up regards the invading Mongol led force's bows: they appear to be relatively short (certainly compared to the Yumi) asymmetrical horn composites (presumably). Sort of more like what you'd find among the Huns.
Also, I've seen the Mōko Shūrai Ekotoba a few times but was wondering which ones precisely were Korean archers:
https://web.archive.org/web/20131031190 … /e_04.html
I always thought it may be the one's in the back as they seem to look like Korean auxiliary soldiers from that time as described in one of the old Osprey series books I own on military history. It's also interesting to compare the above depiction to this one from the Goguryeo tombs:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ … _AD_4C.jpg
I know the actual Korean war bow differed a bit too from the typical Korean Gakgung used today which was standardized more recently.
Hi there, I know this post is over a year old, but I came here to answer your question and say that it looks like Korean archers were used in the Mongol invasions. Records indicate that thousands of Korean soldiers were deployed in the invasion fleets. And Japanese artwork in the famous "Mōko Shūrai Ekotoba" or Mongol Invasion Scrolls, shows what appear to be both Korean and Mongol archers.
Thanks BB. By any chance do you have any good records you could recommend that may be translated into English?
I have noticed that more traditional-looking Korean bows have a small round thing that looks like a button, on the siyah under the string, at the point where the string comes into contact with the bow, at both ends (I hope this description makes sense). This round piece is called a "dogoji."
However, the "modern" KTA bows with fiberglass laminated construction seem to frequently be missing the dogoji. I've found a vendor online that sells them, and I was wondering if there would be any advantage to attaching these to the bow. Does it help with string tension, balance, etc.?
Thank you.
Other bows in other cultures have them as well and as such can be found on Crimean Tatar bows. Sometimes they are just called string rests.
I've heard multiple reasons why they're added such as to simply help the string rest in its proper place after strung as well as something to do with acting as a protective feature for that part of the upper limb particularly for bows at heavier draw weights. Though I'll admit I'm not sure on what the definitive answer is or if one answer is more definitive than the other.
And I believe to remember Armin giving sensible recommendations regarding draw weights.
He deserves a pat on the back for that at least.
Not sure if it had been brought up here, but almost no reviews of KTBs, except for the Black Shadow. I remember no logical explanation for his "dislike" of this bows. He shoots turkish bows of similar length and weight, and draws other bows to 32" and more.
Yeah don't know either. Not going to speculate as well. But don't forget he did do the Taqeuk as well.
Interestingly, draw weight is an important factor for the success of compounds.
As far as I'm concerned, the compound world can do whatever it wants here. I was referring to the unbroken traditions of Kyudo and Gungdo regarding draw weight for appropriate development and tutelage within these arts. Which are of course more relevant to this forum.
Returning more towards the subject of this thread, I just realized what I see as a positive for Armin: he doesn't demo bows at an unnecessarily heavy draw weight.
As said somewhere earlier, more than 95 per cent of compound bow "reviews" are blatant sales pushes. And compound manufacturers indulge deeply in planned obsolescence.
To explain his quote, there are no "crap" bows from established manufacturers, even cheap model use to shoot better then 90 per cent of the average shooter. Except some cheap & dangerous Chinese/Hongkong rip-offs.
I've never been into compounds let alone technically shot one, something I can say along with the late great bowyer Ed Scott. However, if someone wants to use one for a good reason I respect that and know alot of guys who only feel comfortable using them for hunting over other hunting weapons. Its interesting though you bringing up obsolescence in this regard because what I sometimes refer to as the 'bow'-tech industry or compounds has always seemed very much predicated upon that since the very first time I walked into one of those self designated 'pro'-shops with the word 'tech' in it. They pretty much 'have you' so to speak because the servicing of the bow seems almost exclusively geared to revisiting the shop every season and every season seems to bring new gear that you 'must have'.
My experience with shops like those is typically not positive as even though they'll sell arrows and other supplies that are fine for my interests, they hate it when you show up with a korean or long bow and often try and shame you into using compounds in which they demonstrate much ignorance in the process. Even others who share their experiences about going into shops like that note how the shop's main guru often tries to gouge naive, unsuspecting newbies out of money for things they really don't need and 'services' usually not typically billed for. So naturally when you show up with a real bow in hand, they know they won't make the money off you and will nearly refuse to help you in various servicing matters and what not even if they sell things that can go with my bows.
Ergo, I am not the least bit surprised to hear what you are reporting about that industry from a YT perspective.
Spending more money has no positive effect on the scores, only on the ego. Like with cars, for example. But that is another deep (mine) field...
True although sometimes you get to a point in life where you want something customized or tailored more to your exact needs and liking. And you just won't settle for anything else because you are at that point in life. So if you want something nice for yourself, I say get it.
I find the real aspects of ego come out more in archery among those who obsess over things like draw weight in that they must shoot the heaviest pound bow out there in a means to show superiority over others in some manner. Any good dojo or teacher would wisely tell students its not in how much the draw weight of the bow is but rather are you able to learn how to shoot a bow well. Often, using too heavy of a draw weight does not allow for this well and is usually purchased by your more ego driven practitioners unfortunately.
"Do you need a <add flagship bow of favourite company here> to shoot better ? No, you don't. You need to practice."
No. Although it does help to have something fairly well made and is comfortable to you and can rely on. Those factors are fairly important for making one feel confident in what they do. Of course nothing can substitute hard work, sheer raw talent, dedication, discipline etc. And some of course tout that its never the object or instrument that makes you great. Its been said a good guitarist could pick up the crappiest of guitars and make them sound good. The tone is in the fingers accordingly. Likewise, I suppose a truly good archer could be great with any bow.
Still though, you can't shoot with a total piece of crap. Safety reasons alone should qualify that statement.
Returning back to the subject, YT videos really do feed well into what's known as GAS throughout a multiple of hobbies/interests:
Gear Acquisition Syndrome
Not a sure fire cure but a good way to fight it: cut down on YT review watching and go out there and shoot.
The guy is a freak.
Haha. When I read this line I wasn't quite sure where you were going at first but then I read on....
It wouldn't matter to me from which manufacturer the "reviewer" accepts a pre-payment. All reviews would be tainted in my eyes.
If money is taken for one review, then its easily being taken every time its being offered. I'd imagine the reviewer initiates the offer in many cases as well.
BTW, didn't visit the discussed channel for about two month now.
I'll pop in every now and again and see what Armin has to say. Its a fun channel but in no way 100% reliable for one to base a final decision as to whether or not a bow is good to purchase. There are times when he does the comparative analysis thing that I feel he is actually doing a proper service and his Friday short segments are kinda nice but I'd almost always contact Ronald before purchasing anything that Armin shows on his channel.
Of course I understand not wanting to visit at all due to monetization issues and the censorship you faced not too long ago.
Amazing level of transparency:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIEu_kz … L7-UQUdx-8
Ronald really comes through here and exposes all the problems with testing, warranty, and overall dealings with a problematic manufacturer that weren't addressed by the other reviewer. Not for a second do I think this guy would take a kick back from a manufacturer for a good review in a video or any other incentive. Alot of integrity.
I'd also like to take a second to mention that to proclaim any industry as being too small to buy a YT review is either naive or misleading. YT review buying is actually a pretty significant problem regardless of the industry. I know this from being interested in custom guitars. Alot of these smaller guitar companies that will try and buy YT reviews are hardly as large as the two major manufacturers and have a very narrow consumer reach. If you don't believe me feel free to check out this channel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont … qm8SH90POs
He reviews alot of guitars that are no where near the level as the major industry movers yet is often offered money for a positive review. And so when this guy says he delivers truly unbiased reviews, I believe him as I should know, because he is absolutely merciless on guitars that I would consider decent. Not everything is good by a long shot in his book.
And while I'm not going to explicitly say that any YT reviewer is taking kick backs for giving a manufacturer a good review, I will say that a company with the consumer reach, and manufacturing capabilities (tons and tons of bows and arrows manufactured in a relatively short amount of time) such as AliBow would more than likely be easily able to make such offers.
But that's really not the ultimate or only qualifier the way I see it anyway for such activity. Anyone willing to make a name for themselves could easily throw money out there to a YT reviewer for a positive review.
Of course, absolutely no one could be taking money for good YT reviews for bows. And maybe its just other reasons why most reviews come out a certain way on a youtube channel.
Hello, new archer here.... Are there any local groups that shoot like this?
Welcome.
Since you are up in NE you may want to review this thread and contact Freddie Wong:
http://www.koreanarchery.org/punbb/viewtopic.php?id=863
I don't believe anyone got any traction from the organizer here but perhaps you may get lucky although I'm not sure how tightly organized this group is for the study and practice of Gungdo. I think its tied more to a youth group-regional gathering thing.
I'd ask this guy about all things Manchu (the first name):
Are horn bows objectively superior to composite bows made from modern materials?
I will not answer that question unequivocally as from what I've read over the years the 'answer' can vary due to a myriad of circumstances. However, I will refer you to this post by someone who posted here some time ago.
http://www.koreanarchery.org/punbb/view … 4481#p4481
Provided the link still works, you can view the spread sheet offered and see many results for both horn composite and modern synthetics. Hopefully you can still access the spreadsheet.
Recently found out the person running the YT channel discussed her mostly doesn't like criticism too much.
On occasion of a "zombie" video filmed on the outdoor range, I commented that my bow would easily reach the neighbouring residences behind the targets. Censorship was swift ...
Did you post using your screen name here?
If there was a distributor here in Europe, I would perhaps consider getting one for training. But shipping costs from Asia tend to destroy price advantages.
Have you tried ebay yet?:
Ok it was fat fingering. I updated the update with the newest information but also went back and adjusted values for the 20# one. The story is relatively the same.
I assume "Bow rating" means the specification of the manufacturer (paper value), and "Actual Draw" means your actual measurement.
That makes me wonder if said bow is anywhere near the spec. values at 28" - I guess not.
Perhaps the spec. really means "at 31" and not 28", which would make sense for that type of bow.Or it has already lost some pounds, as reported from similar Rolan bows.
Could be 'fat fingering' on my part. Just hang in there.
Korean Traditional Archery → Posts by geoarcher
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